Non-nut flush draw

[Rublish]

Methinks I played this one awfully passively, but I'm having trouble
wih K-high flush draws. I would have raised the flop with
the nut flush draw here, re-raised turn and bet the river. How
much of an adjustment should I make for a King-high draw here?

BTW, this site has been a tremendous help already to me.
So even if no one replies to this post -- just want to say, thanks, guys.
Keep it up.


Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: (7SB, 7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds.

Turn: (6BB, 5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (10BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12BB

[LexusMegamix]

I always play K-high flush draws exactly as nut flush draws. There is never enough information to conclude that someone is holding the nut flush at the table. You will rarely run into A-high flush - money lost on those hands will be much much less than you'll win against lower flushes and other hands.

That being said, I'd raise the flop. You are 2:1 to complete your flush and win the hand. With three or more opponents, choose the best strategy to get as much money in the pot as possible. By checking here you induce only one more bet to go in. By raising, you'll get the original raiser and one or two callers to put more money in. You'll also have a great shot at a free card.

[geormiet]

Raise preflop, raise the flop, put maximum number of bet in on turn and river.

[LexusMegamix]

[nsidestrate]

[Bugsbunny]

Preflop I can go either way, a raise definitely has value here. If you raise you'll either have a very healthy family pot (which you don't mind with that hand at all), or you'll have a smaller family pot where you managed to buy the button. There's actually no down side to a preflop raise here - unless one of the EP players is a tricky type that is known to limp/reraise with things like AA. Actually if any ofthe EP players are strong players I'd be more likely to limp along, since even their limping standards in EP are likely to be fairly high.

So preflop I'll probably raise here about 60/40, maybe even 70/30.
After that raise the flop, 3 bet the turn, bet/call the river at least, I might be willing to cap here although an Ax boat is a very real possibility and against some opponents I'd slow down. If the cap is 5 bets, or unlimited, I'd be putting the breaks on for sure at 4 bets (I lead out, he raises, I 3 bet, he caps would be my limit against the huge majority of people).

What do we know about MP3? If he's limping in with any A, but raising strong ones, that pretty much eliminates AQ from the picture. But you still have to fear A7, A6 as well as Ax in hearts. Or 66 or 77. So slowing down on the river isn't all bad, but reads would be helpful. But even slowing down you have to put at least 2 bets in if possible.

[Rublish]

Didn't have much of a read on MP3, except he's probably at least reasonably tight. This was my maybe 15th hand at the table, and he I think played one hand in that time span.

He showed down T9 of hearts, btw.

[the_hawk]

We've got a bit sidetracked by the preflop discussion here.

You have made a major mistake by not getting nearly enough postflop cash into this pot, especially on the turn but also on the river despite the scare card. I don't think slowing down much on the river is justifiable. Bugs has it about right I reckon.

With two flush cards in hand, K-high flush draws are identical to nut flush draws for all practical purposes in my view. Of course if a fourth flush card arrives on board you need to re-evaluate but before then, seeing a nut flush beating your A-high flush with only three flush cards on board is generally seeing monsters under the bed. It will happen but once in a blue moon.