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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: too agressive vs weak/tight? |
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VIllain was like a 22/15 type. (200 hands). Too agressive?
3/6 Limit Holdem
5 players
Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 5 players) Hero is SB  
3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls
Flop:    (3.0 SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls
Turn:  (3.5 BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls
River:  (7.5 BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls |
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mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 364
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I'd be interested in the response to this as this is a play I would never make but maybe I should be.
My experiences tell me that no one folds a pair blind vs blind anymore and although you can bluff out a missed draw you obviously have to fire the river almost 100% if called on the turn for this to be successful. I'm not sure putting in 3 big bets on the turn and river is +EV enough of the time here. I think I'd like the cushion of having more outs with my semi bluff.
That being said I honestly don't know so I'd be interested to hear what Willem et al think about it. |
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Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2647
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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I would 3bet this on the flop, and lead the turn if he caps. (Maybe even 3bet the turn) I'm not really bluffing to get him to fold anything (although he will fold 9x, Tx, Jx air). I am bluffing to provide balance for my made hands. Besides, the flop is not really a bluff as you have 15 outs to beat top pair there, so it's more like a value-raise.
Bluffing like this might be considered spewing, but only playing made hands so fast is just very exploitable. When people see you playing your draws so fast, they are not going to fold any pair. And some aggro opponents will even start re-raising hands like bottom/middle pair, which is nice when you have top pair. |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Willem wrote: | | Besides, the flop is not really a bluff as you have 15 outs to beat top pair there, so it's more like a value-raise. |
There´s no flush draw. So only up to 7-8 outs.
I usually 3bet this on the flop. But sometimes I slowplay a strong hand on this kind of a board since villain will almost always bet the turn again. So this time I did a "slowplay" with my draw. |
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Willem
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2647
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Skrotnisse wrote: | | Willem wrote: | | Besides, the flop is not really a bluff as you have 15 outs to beat top pair there, so it's more like a value-raise. |
There´s no flush draw. So only up to 7-8 outs.
I usually 3bet this on the flop. But sometimes I slowplay a strong hand on this kind of a board since villain will almost always bet the turn again. So this time I did a "slowplay" with my draw. |
LOL, any chance of introducing a 4-color deck here too. My comments were for when you'd have 86hh.
With just a gutter, 3-betting is not really necessary as you'll have plenty of flush draws and open enders to play fast. I would just call the flop raise, check-call the turn and dump it on the river unimproved. |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Willem wrote: |
LOL, any chance of introducing a 4-color deck here too. My comments were for when you'd have 86hh.
With just a gutter, 3-betting is not really necessary as you'll have plenty of flush draws and open enders to play fast. I would just call the flop raise, check-call the turn and dump it on the river unimproved. |
Well, if we have enough semibluff hands that 3-bet the flop and we decide to call then what are we raising on the turn? We´re gonna be check/raising the turn K with TP+ so we probably need some hands to semibluff turn with. (what would you, Willem, raise if not 86o?) |
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Willem
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2647
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Skrotnisse wrote: | | Willem wrote: |
LOL, any chance of introducing a 4-color deck here too. My comments were for when you'd have 86hh.
With just a gutter, 3-betting is not really necessary as you'll have plenty of flush draws and open enders to play fast. I would just call the flop raise, check-call the turn and dump it on the river unimproved. |
Well, if we have enough semibluff hands that 3-bet the flop and we decide to call then what are we raising on the turn? We´re gonna be check/raising the turn K with TP+ so we probably need some hands to semibluff turn with. (what would you, Willem, raise if not 86o?) |
Some turned flush draws probably.
But I do like the way you played the hand, even though I would manage my bluffs differently. |
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