Starting hands question

[jack_the_hat]

Hi guys.

First-time poster here, with a super-rookie question for you.

In many poker textbooks, you will find the author talk about starting hands to play in "early", "middle" or "late position".

Now, I know the relevance of position in regards to the button after the flop , but when these authors talk about playing starting hands based on position, do they mean the position you are in *preflop*, or the position you will be in *after the flop*?

Can somebody clear this up for me?

Thanks,

Jack[/b]

[Fenris78]

Starting hands are always in regard to preflop positions.

So preflop the break down goes like this on a 10handed table:

Early position are the 3 seats to the left of the big blind
Middle position are the next 3 seats
Late position are the 2 seats to the right of the small blind

The blinds are the earliest position after the flop of course, but preflop their position is simply called "small/big blind". They are neither early, middle nor late.

[jack_the_hat]

Thanks for clearing that up Fenris!

[taz115]

Fenris is spot on about starting hands referring to preflop position but you have to watch how some of the books describe the relative position after the flop.

That is because if I'm in the CO (cut-off, one spot before the button) and I raise and the Button calls me and the blinds fold I'm now out of position post-flop even though I was in late position preflop. Most books describe the post-flop decisions regarding relative position out of everyone who is left in the hand.

taz115

[Hermann the Lombard]

I think the more confusing thing is adjusting for open seats and players sitting out. I start at a full ring table and suddenly it's 7-handed. My understanding is that the guideline is to work backward from the button so that (7-handed) the "early" positions no longer exist, and UTG becomes MP1. I guess when it drops to 6-handed the game is significantly different (and has been becoming so as seats go inactive), devaluing the mid-to-low suited & connector hands and enhancing the high-card hands. Any guidelines for newbies here?

[taz115]

[Hermann the Lombard]

Just now I'm mildly gung-ho about avoiding 6-max, it's just that short-handed tables come to me during the fluctuations of attempted full ring play. Start with 10 people at the table. One sits out, one leaves, another leaves, another sits out...presto, change-o it's a 6-max table...and on Stars .05/.10 there aren't a lot of choices. [I see people multi-tabling but sitting out at 2 or 3 tables while playing others, an obnoxious habit that contributes to less-than-full ringing.]

BTW, I know that I will eventually want play 6-max so thanks for the recommendation.

[jeffnc]

For starting hands, they are talking about position before the flop. Even though you're in late position before the flop, the hands you play in the blinds are going to be a little tighter than you might think. Even though you're getting a discount and good position before the flop, the rest of the hand will play from early position and your discount won't always make up for that.

[kissan4]

If we look from the other way around, it might be helpful for a newbie to play on 6 max tables, since then he can learn post-flop play faster

[taz115]

[(0utlander)]

The decision between FR and SH starting out (IMO) would vary from person to person. If, for example, you notice you tend to pick up on subtle points very quickly in other things you learn, SH is a viable teaching tool. If you tend to have a harder time understanding the "whys and hows" of things, FR would probably be a better choice to study how others play while you are out of action.

Example, I started playing very micro micro 6max (horribly I might add), but I quickly started to pick up a little better post-flop playing habbits. Once I noticed my BR was rising and connected the two moved up.

May not be the best of insights, but there it is.