|
|
| Author |
Message |
Da_Big_Fish
1K Club
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1721
Location: West Virginia
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: Something I've been wondering about... |
 |
|
Do you think there is any merit in trying to see a flop on the micros with any pocket pair? Of course I want to do this as cheaply as possible with pairs of TT or lower, right? But I figure that maybe "set mining" is +EV at these stakes and perhaps even at live $2/4. Is this something viable to me? I can get away from the hand if it doesn't produce a set, so I am not worried about getting in trouble with it. Just wondered if it would be a +EV thing to do in the long run given the limits I play and the players I play against.
Thanks for the replies. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
 |
the_hawk
Chelsea FTW!
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 4452
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Position position position is key. If always seeing a flop means open limping with 22 from EP or cold calling an EP raise with 44, you can forget it. So the short answer to your question is "no". |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
nsidestrate
Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 22657
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I think you can play small pairs profitably for one bet pretty much all the time. Not many people agree with me. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
the_hawk
Chelsea FTW!
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 4452
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If I think there's a decent chance of getting in for 1 bet I will always play. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
Da_Big_Fish
1K Club
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1721
Location: West Virginia
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So then I should attempt to do this when I have a pocket pair and I am in any position? Say I do bet and it is raised, would I call it or just release the small pair? |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
the_hawk
Chelsea FTW!
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 4452
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It depends on position. Smallish pairs are an automatic toss first-in in ep. Being behind limpers or closer to the button makes life a bit more interesting. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
Misunderstud
1K Club
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Here, stupid
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Da_Big_Fish wrote: | | So then I should attempt to do this when I have a pocket pair and I am in any position? Say I do bet and it is raised, would I call it or just release the small pair? |
Generally speaking you should call a single raise. Whether you call when it's 2 or 3 back to you depends on how many players are already committed to seeing the flop and the size of your pp.
I wouldn't advise open limping any pair from anywhere unless the table is extremely LP (which it might be quite often where you're playing), but if there's already a limper you're rather more likely to get more callers and rather less likely to see a raise behind. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
Bugsbunny
Wascally
Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 7762
Location: Drinking Carrot juice
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nsidestrate wrote: | | I think you can play small pairs profitably for one bet pretty much all the time. Not many people agree with me. |
I agree with you.
| Quote: | | Of course I want to do this as cheaply as possible with pairs of TT or lower, right? |
Now how low and what to do with others when is a horse of another color. TT is a potential capping hand (although I wouldn't cold cap it, if it's bet, raise, raise in front of me it's a fold. I may cold 3 bet though). A lot of pairs can be raised, depending on the action in front (and who's left behind).
Basically the small pairs are pretty much limp or fold (sometimes you can cold call, but that's infrequent), the mid pairs can often be played much more strongly then that - with the higher mid pairs possibly being played like premium pairs, in the right circumstances. It all depends  |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
shallam
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 250
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Something I've been wondering about... |
|
|
| Da_Big_Fish wrote: | Do you think there is any merit in trying to see a flop on the micros with any pocket pair? Of course I want to do this as cheaply as possible with pairs of TT or lower, right? But I figure that maybe "set mining" is +EV at these stakes and perhaps even at live $2/4. Is this something viable to me? I can get away from the hand if it doesn't produce a set, so I am not worried about getting in trouble with it. Just wondered if it would be a +EV thing to do in the long run given the limits I play and the players I play against.
Thanks for the replies. |
I would think less about the limits and more about the conditions. Also I'd separate out, mid pair and very low pairs. Here are some of the conditions I'm looking for.
In early position I"d play 99 or higher. At a loose passive table I'd limp, at some tables I might raise.
In early and mid position I'd add 77.
With 3 or more limpers and a passive table I'd play most of the other pocket pairs. On the button I'd them with just 2 limpers. I'm also mindful of how aggressive the players behind me are. If there are chronic raises behind me I might fold (a also might consider limping w AA or KK against a chronic PF raiser -- with the intent of backraising).
If the table is VERY loose and VERY passive, I'll call more liberally.
I have found that sometimes the lower micros limits (.1/.2) are MORE agg PF, than higher limits (.25/.50). At some of the very low limits players have a WTF attitude and stick in raise with any two. In those cases I might play a little tighter with my marginal pairs.
Sometimes I will play these hands more liberally than described above, since low pocket pair are usually very easy to play. If I hit a set I'll be hyper agg, if not I'll almost always fold.
FWIW, small pocket pairs have much greater value in deep stack no limit poker. Many opps are wiling to put in their entire stack with just a pair, or just an overpair, when they are up against a set they are drawing VERY thin.
OTOH, you can also get yourself into trouble with these hands if you are always putting the PF raiser on two big cards. Generally speaking if I don't hit a set I'm done. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
jeffnc
Mason's Favorite
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 7267
Location: NC, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| At some tables you can basically just limp in with any pocket pair anywhere. In fact limping UTG has a cascade effect that encourages more limping, so it can be a "self fulfilling" play. If someone raises I don't care - if the pot is 5-way I really don't care too much if I had to pay a raise or not. |
|
| Back to top of Forum |
|
|
|
