Snyder's "Wolf Pack Instinct"

[jmbreslin]

I wanted to post this as a separate strategy post, rather than putting it in the book review forum, because I think it is worth discussion on its own. I've been reading Snyder's PTF lately and I was very pleased with the book...until I got to the chapter entitled, "The Wolf Pack Instinct." In the chapter he advocates calling rather than reraising to isolate a desperately shortstacked player in a MTT so that others at the table are encouraged to join in and eliminate the shortie. Here are a couple of passages:

"If this player makes his all-in move, and you happen to be holding AKs, this is not the time to raise other players out of the pot. You do not want to limit the field for your own hand at a time like this. Just call. You want as many players as possible in this pot to put the short-stacked player out of his misery once and for all."

A few paragraphs later:

"You may be sitting there with some pretty sharp teeth - AK, pocket Jacks or Queens -- that that short stack may have so few chips he's liable to be pushing in with little more than a prayer. But don't raise. Just call. Let the pack in on this kill."

This strategy makes perfect sense to me on the bubble of an STT, or in any other tourney where there is a big jump in prize money from one level to the next, but not in typical MTTs. In a typical MTT your focus should be on accumulating chips, not on joining forces with other players to knock out shortstacks, especially when doing so can actually cost you chips.

Can anyone shed some light on this? The strategy he's advocating in this chapter just seems downright wrong. And what makes it more frustrating is that the chapter is very brief, with no specific hand examples or discussion of different stack size scenarios or tourney structures.

[Bluedaq]

Not read the book could you put it into some context, is it the final table the final threee tables before the bubble early or did he say every situation.

If the guy is a good/dangerous player it might be a good idea to call in every situation. Especially if the rest of the pack is weak.

[jmbreslin]

He doesn't give any context at all, he seems to be advocating it as a general MTT strategy. It's kind of irrelevant if the shortie is a good player - if he pushes all in with a very short stack and you have a good hand and a much larger stack, letting others in only increases the likelihood that your hand won't hold up. Shortie may still get eliminated but you may be sacrificing some of your own chips to enable that to happen. It makes much more sense to islolate the shortie with your good hand to increase the chances of adding his chips (and the blinds) to your stack.

[emmapeel]

Yes, I thought this was wrong too as soon as I read it. I'd rather have the chips than a chance to move up one place. If, for example, the call with AK represented 1/3 of your stack, surely you would want to re-raise to avoid losing this amount. I think the idea in this chapter is for special situations only.

I love this book, but a lot of the idea's in it don't sound right for every circumstance. In my opinion, the wolf pack idea doesn't sound right for most.

What I like most about this book is that it opens your mind to new idea's and so I wouldn't want to say that idea's like this don't have merit and it would be great if we could get the author to answer questions in the "Ask the expert" bit.

This is not the only idea in the book that, I think, needs to be questioned though, and I would love to see other posts like this one. I might even post one myself.

EP

[maf66]

I've seen a couple of posts on this a while back, and I remember someone got accused of collusion in a live event by doing this very thing.

I'll try and dig out the posts.

[nsidestrate]

I disagreed with this concept too and got some interesting discussion when I posted about it.

[jmbreslin]

Interesting thread, thanks. The bottom line is that, whatever your opinion on the strategy, Snyder doesn't do a very good job of explaining it or analyzing it in enough depth in the chapter.

[Stew21]