|
|
| Author |
Message |
mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 385
Location: Warwickshire, UK
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Small pocket pair HU OOP |
 |
|
I pretty much had no idea how to play this hand so ended up playing it weak.
Villain is 36/24/1.5 but only over 321 hands. WTSD% is 33. I had an early read that villain was checking through a lot of turns with overcards so I peeled the flop to evaluate on the turn. The J on the turn hits a flop peeling range and I believe he would be aware of that. He may of course still been firing with overs planning to fold to any show of strength on the turn.
If I raise the flop he will credit a large portion of my range to draws so the turn becomes a pretty easy fold for me if he raises me there with that particular turn card. As I struggle a bit with these spots I'm thinking capping pre flop may make the hand play out easier OOP post flop.
Anyone just dump this on the flop?
Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter
Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with 5  : 5  :
Hero raises, MP 3-bets, 4 folds, Hero calls
Flop: (7.5 SB) 2 : 9 : 8 : (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls
Turn: (4.75 BB) J : (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds
Last edited by mconstab on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2652
Location: Netherlands
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't dump this on the flop. You are still ahead of any overcard hand he has and you still have some backdoor possibilities. The turn then makes the board much more coordinated, even if you are ahead here, there may be a lot of RIVER cards that can come and hurt you. I don't mind folding the turn here. Alternatively, you can call the turn and fold to a river bet, as he will probably check behind any ace high there.
Last edited by Willem on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 385
Location: Warwickshire, UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
FWIW I would never dump it on the flop here either. I basically had the same thinking when I saw the turn card that If I'm still ahead then there's a whole host of rivers I'm not going to want to see, so maybe I didn't play it so bad after all.
Watching some of Oinks videos over at Deuces, he seems to advocate capping HU OOP pre flop with hands like 77 to make the post flop play easier. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2652
Location: Netherlands
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Capping preflop is doable at $5/$10. Problem with capping is that it's very hard to balance. You cannot cap you entire range and no matter how you mix it up, you are always capping a much strong range compared to when you call the 3-bet. But most opponents here don't notice and even if they do, they don't know how to leverage that information.
I personally never cap OOP. Doesn't cost anything since I can check-raise any good flop, and I save mental energy by not having to think about how to balance my ranges in this spot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 385
Location: Warwickshire, UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Willem wrote: | Capping preflop is doable at $5/$10. Problem with capping is that it's very hard to balance. You cannot cap you entire range and no matter how you mix it up, you are always capping a much strong range compared to when you call the 3-bet. But most opponents here don't notice and even if they do, they don't know how to leverage that information.
I personally never cap OOP. Doesn't cost anything since I can check-raise any good flop, and I save mental energy by not having to think about how to balance my ranges in this spot. |
Willem, what would be your opinion on raising this flop? Villain can put you on a draw heavy range and call you down light if the turn and river are safe for his hand. Alternatively several turn and river cards can easily represent a made draw and deter villain from showing down his overcards. I guess the problem would be if villain 3 bets the flop and also how showdown bound they are.
I think I still play this passive to induce bluffs from missed overs along with losing less when I'm crushed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Iīm calling the flop and turn since I think most villains (even those who check/behind a lot of turns) is betting the turn again with AK or AQ. This might be spew though... donīt know.
I wouldnīt cap the hand and I wouldnīt raise flop. Donīt think we would win anything with it. Sure I could fold more post if I get played back at but Iīm not looking for folds, Iīm looking for showdowns. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2652
Location: Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Skrotnisse wrote: | | Iīm calling the flop and turn since I think most villains (even those who check/behind a lot of turns) is betting the turn again with AK or AQ. This might be spew though... donīt know. |
If you have a note villain checks behind A-high on the turn, you'd better use that read and fold there. (Why are you taking notes otherwise?)
I actually like the idea of check-raising this. If he just keeps calling, you can probably valuebet the turn and river against a probably ace high. Even if he is in call down mode with a slightly better hand, you are still better off betting yourself as he will probably bet anyway when you check to him, causing you to lose that bet anyway. If he calls and raises the turn, you can easily fold as he is probably never bluffing in that spot. (Or at least not often enough to warrant a call)
One thing against playing so aggressive is that the ranges are somewhat tight, with you being UTG and him being the Hijack. I would like a a lot more if this was CO vs Button. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 385
Location: Warwickshire, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Willem wrote: |
I actually like the idea of check-raising this. If he just keeps calling, you can probably valuebet the turn and river against a probably ace high. Even if he is in call down mode with a slightly better hand, you are still better off betting yourself as he will probably bet anyway when you check to him, causing you to lose that bet anyway. If he calls and raises the turn, you can easily fold as he is probably never bluffing in that spot. (Or at least not often enough to warrant a call)
One thing against playing so aggressive is that the ranges are somewhat tight, with you being UTG and him being the Hijack. I would like a a lot more if this was CO vs Button. |
And if villain 3 bets flop see a turn card and fold turn unimproved? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2652
Location: Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mconstab wrote: | | Willem wrote: |
I actually like the idea of check-raising this. If he just keeps calling, you can probably valuebet the turn and river against a probably ace high. Even if he is in call down mode with a slightly better hand, you are still better off betting yourself as he will probably bet anyway when you check to him, causing you to lose that bet anyway. If he calls and raises the turn, you can easily fold as he is probably never bluffing in that spot. (Or at least not often enough to warrant a call)
One thing against playing so aggressive is that the ranges are somewhat tight, with you being UTG and him being the Hijack. I would like a a lot more if this was CO vs Button. |
And if villain 3 bets flop see a turn card and fold turn unimproved? |
Probably. Or maybe call the turn and fold the river, not really sure here. Any reads on how he plays his overcards really helps in this spot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
