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Short stack questions

 
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blah730235



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Short stack questions Reply with quote

I'm trying to wrap my head around proper short stack play so could anyone post a hand example for either of the following:

Limping with a 20bb stack preflop with postflop play

Calling a standard PFR (3bb - 5bb) with a 20bb stack with postflop play
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Fumseck
Cannuque


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3306
Location: Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am no expert but :

You don't limp, you don't call. Never.

I would:
Push AQ+ and TT+ when someone raises. Maybe AT+ and KQs depending on opponents.

Raise the same hands (maybe also any pair) and push or fold the flop depending on board texture and opponent.

You only want to play 1 or 2 streets (preflop and flop). You always want to be the aggressor.

Ed Miller has a great short stack strategy in Getting Started in Hold'em.


Last edited by Fumseck on Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dankimball



Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 302
Location: arkansas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Short stack questions Reply with quote

blah730235 wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my head around proper short stack play so could anyone post a hand example for either of the following:

Limping with a 20bb stack preflop with postflop play

Calling a standard PFR (3bb - 5bb) with a 20bb stack with postflop play



shortstacking is -ev imo
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Fumseck
Cannuque


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3306
Location: Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few professional short stackers at NL 2/4 (pro meaning they make money out of playing that style). But in general I agree with Dan.
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Taardvark
1K Club


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1085
Location: Fremont, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how it can be profitable long term but the whole concept is really about getting your money in as a favorite or slight dog in a flip pre flop and doubling up. Most of the players I have dealt with have very little post flop skill and this allows them a way around it to some extent.
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Fumseck
Cannuque


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3306
Location: Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do have profitable shortstackers at higher limit (NL 1k and 5k).
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Soultwister



Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 429

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Get Bill Chen's book 'the Mathematics of Poker'
- Memorize the push-fold chart for 20BB's and use it in SB vs BB situations. I like shortstacks to my direct left and use the push-fold range from that chart every single time when it's folded to me in SB, and if I would ever play shortstack, I would do the same.
- Shortstacking is about fold equity and pot equity. A fish limps, a regular iso-raises....consider what range he'll iso-raise with and jam accordingly.

Quote:
Limping with a 20bb stack preflop with postflop play


???

Quote:
You don't limp, you don't call. Never.

=Answer



Overall though, I know many winning shortstacks, but after checking out their stats in huge databases most of them run at like 0.7ptBB/100 at nl200. Bleh.
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blah730235



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You don't limp, you don't call. Never.


I disagree I think there are some but not many spots to limp, and VERY few spots to call a PFR but I think there are spots. However I have only played shortstacked for ~ 2k hands so I am far from being a expert. I think i'll post a hand myself where I think a good spot to limp in is and go from there.

Quote:
Memorize the push-fold chart for 20BB's and use it in SB vs BB situations. I like shortstacks to my direct left and use the push-fold range from that chart every single time when it's folded to me in SB, and if I would ever play shortstack, I would do the same.


Yea i'll defintaly look into this I heard somewhere about how you could push far from strong hands in SB v.s. BB situations short stacked and break even if the bb has perfect short stack play.

Quote:
Push AQ+ and TT+ when someone raises. Maybe AT+ and KQs depending on opponents.

Raise the same hands (maybe also any pair) and push or fold the flop depending on board texture and opponent.


Hm... I defintaly don't think that just because we're short-stacked we need a value based raise range. If it's folded to me on the button and I know I can outplay the blinds preflop & flop then 20bbs gives me more than enough leverage to play a wide range of hands.

Thanks for comments all much appreciated.
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