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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: SharkDAQ closes the doors at $11.13 |
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As discussed in this thread, we are establishing a fund that will seek to stake some of our best MTT players who have not yet accumulated the bankroll the play in the big Sunday Million event. This fund has four goals:
1) Foster a sense of community between the MTT players in ITH.
2) Promote the growth, education, and experience of MTT players who otherwise couldn't afford to take shots at the big weekly tourneys
3) Generate positive return on investment for the backers
4) Promote more discussion and analysis of MTT situations on the ITH forums.
I. The terms of the staking deal
In order to be backed into the Million by the SharkDAQ, you will need to be placed on the list of approved players (see section III for details on how to get on the list). Once approved, you will be put on a rotation to get staked. The frequency of your staking will depend on how much money the fund has available to provide stakes and how many players are available to play on any given week. We do not intend to choose the "best players" each week. Everyone on the list is assumed to be +EV and we intend to rotate the chance to play to give every backed player the same chance to be staked. The exception is that if you finish in the money one week, you will eligible to continue to be staked the next week until you do not cash.
If you agree to be staked, you must purchase at least 25% of your own action. You may purchase as much of your action over 25% as you choose. If you lose your stake, the stakeholders absorb the loss and you owe nothing in return. If you finish in the money, you must repay the SharkDAQ the percentage of your win that you were staked plus 5%. If you took the maximum stake of 75% from the SharkDAQ, you will owe 80% of your winnings back to the fund. This is to help make up for the times that you lost and to provide a financial incentive to the backers. This 5% will only apply to amounts won prior to the final table. If 9th place is worth $5,000 and you finish in 5th place for $50,000 and you were fully staked, you will owe 80% of the $5,000 and 75% of the remaining $45,000 back to the fund.
Obviously, a player could elect to increase his share of his own action or to leave the list of stakees at any time that they no longer feel that the arrangement is in their best interest.
The fund will not spend more than 20% of its reserves on any given week. This should ensure that we don't go broke too fast.
Once the fund is established, we can adjust the staking plan by a majority vote of stakeholders (one vote per share) to make the terms better for the players or the stakees if we aren't attracting good players or enough stake holders. I suggest that we keep the terms stable for a month or two in order to get a good idea of how the arrangement is working. Remember that poker is a game of the long run.
II. Buying in and cashing out of the fund
The value of a share of the SharkDAQ is initially set at $20. You may purchase as many shares as you like. The price of shares will remain between $10 and $40 at all times and the number of shares held will be adjusted to ensure this. If the fund hits a value of $40, everyone will receive two shares for each share that they hold and the price will be readjusted to $20. If the fund hits a value of $10, everyone will receive one share for every two shares that they hold and the value will be readjusted to $20.
In order to buy shares, you need to do a transfer to 23-19 on PokerStars for an even amount of shares. When the fund is first established, that means $20, $40, $60 or any mulitplier of $20. You should also send me a PM comfirming that you have sent me a transfer (this is especially important if I don't know your Stars nick). I will keep a list of all stakeholders posted in this thread, so that you can keep track of your purchases. You may buy more shares at any time. I will credit any purchases made before the start of the Sunday Million at the share price that is set at that time. Any purchases made after the Sunday Million begins will be effective after we settle up for that week's event and a new share price is set. There will be no exceptions. If the transfer appears in my account even one minute after the start of the Million, I will only sell shares at the new share price established the next week.
In order to sell shares, you need to send me a PM letting me know how many of your shares you would like to receive back. I will promise to process the transfer within a week, although I should normally be able to do it faster. Because the fund will be investing in T$ and will commit funds to the stakees, any request to sell needs to be made by 11:59pm EST on Wednesday to be ensured of being processed at the current price. If you make a request on Thursday-Sunday, you may have to accept the cash at the new fund value after the million. I do have other things to do besides run this silly fund. I might be able to process it between Thursday and Sunday at the old rate, but you are taking your chances. Maybe it will be at the old rate, maybe it will be at the new rate, depending on my schedule -- you don't get to whine about it.
After the Sunday Million, I will settle up with the winners from that week, and readjust the value of each sale. If we win more than we pay out in T$ and cash, the value of each share will increase. If we win less than we paid out, the value of each share will decline. I will provide a complete accounting in this thread so that you can double check me and make sure that we don't make any math errors.
The fund is likely to have an insatiable appetite for T$. If you have some to sell, consider selling some us the SharkDAQ. I think we'll pay $0.95 per T$.
III. Becoming a stakee
Should I become a stakee?
Read the terms of the split carefully (Section I). You are giving up some of your earnings in order to get to play the Million. The dafult arrangement means that you will pay 25% of your fees and only get 20% of your winnings (up to the final table). Using your money to take shots at sats or sticking to lower buy-in MTTs might be a better decision for you. No one is going to pressure you to be one of our players. Make sure it makes sense for you.
It might be a good deal for you for two reasons. One is that you will get a chance to play for a very large prize that you would not have have been able to play otherwise. Another is that you will get a chance to have the community to review your hand histories after the event and get commentary from good players about your play, which should help you to improve. These hand histories can be discussed openly on ITH (which I would encourage) or only shared with the stakeholders and stakees in a private forum (if you prefer to keep information about your play private).
How do I apply?
Assuming that you think being staked by the SharkDAQ would be a good thing for you, here is how to apply. Send a PM to me making a reasonable case as to why you think you are +EV. You can include screenshots of your pokertracker results, a pokerDB report, a narrative description of your experience or whatever you think will help us. I will share what you've provided with the committee and notify you via PM what we decide.
How does the committe select players?
The committe (Nsidestrate, Tall Paul, and Poker_Elmo) will look at anything we have available to evaluate a player. We might consider your posts on ITH, tourneys that we have watched while on IRC, public databases of results or our random instincts about you. Obviously, the better known you are to us, the easier it is for us to make a decision. If we don't accept you, it doesn't mean we think you are a bad player, it just means that we don't have enough information to form an opinion that you are +EV. We have an obligation to the people who buy shares to try to choose wisely from the applicant pool. If you have 5 posts and don't hang out with the IRC tourney crew, the standard of proof will be much more difficult to meet. It isn't a post count contest, but if you have a history of posting sensible MTT advice, we are in a better position to judge what you know about poker.
It is not the goal of this fund to provide everyone with a shot at the Million. It is the goal of this fund to locate +EV players who are not bankrolled to fund themselves into the million and make money for the backers. If don't select you, it doesn't mean that we don't think you are +EV, it just means that we don't have enough information to determine that you are +EV. Keep developing your game in the usual way, by playing more games that are within your bankroll and building up your cash and accumulating wins.
Because another goal is to build community, we will tend to prefer players who have a history at ITH and who are also participants in the SharkDAQ as shareholders. This kind of shared risk is very much in keeping with the spirit of the SharkDAQ
Can you be removed from the stakee list?
Yes. If your hand histories from the Million suggest that you might not be ready to keep playing at that level yet, we might ask you to step down. You should not be embarrassed by this -- not everyone is ready to play at every level. It doesn't mean that you will not eventually be ready, just that you need to work on some things first. You should be reviewing your own game and making your own judgments about that as well. Hopefully, you will realize that you aren't ready and step down before we have to take some action.
Also, if you are determined to playing unethically (sharing hole card information with other players at the table, for example), we will ask you to step down. Despite the fact that we have a shared interest in the results, we in no way, shape or form would condone cheating of any kind. Discussing hands with players not at the table in IRC is considered acceptable, discussing them with players who are at the table is not. Softplaying against other ITHers is also not acceptable -- if we see evidence of that in the hand histories, we will not stake you again.
Discussing your hands and seeking advice from other players during the hand is controversial. We understand that PokerStars allows this and therefore so do we. I'm not at all sure that it is a good idea for you. You are the one playing your hand and you have to make decisions. Other players on IRC have not been studying the other players and may not know what your table image is like. Seeking input from other players may distract you or lead you to make a decision that you wish you had not. I personally prefer to get input from other players after the hand finishes and not to be distracted during the hand. You should think about what works best for you.
IV. Miscellaneous provisions
We may change the terms of the staking arrangements or other details of how to work the SharkDAQ as we figure things out. I will try to seek and obtain votes from a majority of the stakers for changes and provide sufficient warning of those changes to all, so that you can sell your shares if you no longer think that the terms work for you. However, situations may arise that require me to take immediate action without waiting for vote. I will try to be as fair as I can to all parties and will seek a vote on how to handle those situations in the future, but be aware that I might have to make my own interpretations on the fly.
Warning 1 to potential stakers: This is a risky business. We might select players who are actually not in fact +EV. They might be +EV in general but be nervous and play poorly under the pressure of playing for the group. They might be +EV, but experience a bad run of cards over a long time and lose money. It is possible that a player will win and run away with the money and stiff the backers. Do not purchase stakes with money that you can not afford to lose. There is a significant risk that you will lose the money you invest in this venture.
Warning 2 to potential stakers: You are responsible for your own taxes and your own tax advice. Despite the cute language and the investment-like structure of this deal, it is not in fact a security or mutual fund. We don't do any of that kind of reporting. I believe that it is properly treated as shared gambling and that you have to record your wins and losses as if you were playing yourself, but you need to figure that out for yourself.
Last edited by nsidestrate on Wed May 14, 2008 7:32 am; edited 25 times in total |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: List of current shareholders in the fund |
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Last edited by nsidestrate on Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:53 am; edited 11 times in total |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by nsidestrate on Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by nsidestrate on Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Cript Cheesehead
Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5086 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Nside, please confirm the goal date of the first $215? |
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markrounder7282 1K Club
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 1221 Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Very nicely done nside, are you accepting share purchases immediately?
Last edited by markrounder7282 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Cript wrote: | | Nside, please confirm the goal date of the first $215? |
I believe it is November 9th. We obviously don't have time to make arrangements for the October 22nd event and it is my understanding that the October 29th event is a $530, which I want to avoid with this group. That means that the first possible event is November 9th, unless I am wrong about the 29th. |
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MXRider Slim Shady
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 4924 Location: Have it your way!
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| markrounder7282 wrote: | | Very nicely done niside, are you accepting share purchases immediately? |
I certainly hope so since I just bought some  |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| markrounder7282 wrote: | | Very nicely done niside, are you accepting share purchases immediately? |
Sure. You can send your transfer whenever you like. I am going to be off hiking in the woods this weekend, so I probably won't update the list until Monday. I expect to take off in a few hours. |
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Cript Cheesehead
Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5086 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| nsidestrate wrote: | | Cript wrote: | | Nside, please confirm the goal date of the first $215? |
I believe it is November 9th. We obviously don't have time to make arrangements for the October 22nd event and it is my understanding that the October 29th event is a $530, which I want to avoid with this group. That means that the first possible event is November 9th, unless I am wrong about the 29th. |
Isn't that Sunday, November 5th?? |
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taz115 Hzamm9rd, Yo!!!
Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 8436 Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Yes it will be nov 5th Cript, assuming we raise enough funds by that time to stake at least one player which will require $215 x 5 in shares to be sold.
I am pumped up at this proposition! Not so much from a personal perspective but just because the idea itself is a great one.
nside, thanks in advance for taking the time to manage this, you are a machine.
taz115 |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22457
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Cript wrote: | | Isn't that Sunday, November 5th?? |
Yeah. I need reading glasses. |
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jfletcher Will work for food
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 3162
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Nside, I just purchased 3 shares. I transfered $60 to you. My PS screen name is imbluffing24.
One other minor question, I think you should clarify that it would be OK for someone to remain a shareholder even if they didn't want to play, or weren't judged ready to play. You could just sit back and watch others make money for you, right? |
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taz115 Hzamm9rd, Yo!!!
Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 8436 Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | One other minor question, I think you should clarify that it would be OK for someone to remain a shareholder even if they didn't want to play, or weren't judged ready to play. You could just sit back and watch others make money for you, right? |
It better be, otherwise the players are going to essentially funding themselves anyway. I really do not have an intention to play as there are other better candidates than myself and I buy-in to the million on a semi-regular basis but I plan to buy shares. |
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