Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 2042 Location: Alameda, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: Schooling by Piemaster.
Nice article - I call it 'too many indians' - same concept. When I end up playing in the loose N-CA games I try to play cards that will make big hands and not many more. It pretty much has to be suited and usually with the Ace so if I hit a runner runner flush it is still good. Suited connected that will make the nuts is also good. Almost any pair that does not set will lose in these games. I have had AA cracked 5 times in one 2 hours session and once I hit the set.
Sometimes I consider not raising with big pairs late after many players have limped in because 1) they will not fold, 2) it takes more than TPTK/Overpair to win those pots and 3) it makes the pot bigger which gives many hands the right odds to call - thus making it correct. With pot odds of 14-1 almost any 2 cards is a good call.
I love it when I drag a 30 bet pot, however. The biggest 6/12 that I have seen was $520 - 43 big bets.
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Schooling by Piemaster.
AlamedaMike wrote:
Sometimes I consider not raising with big pairs late after many players have limped in because 1) they will not fold, 2) it takes more than TPTK/Overpair to win those pots and 3) it makes the pot bigger which gives many hands the right odds to call - thus making it correct. With pot odds of 14-1 almost any 2 cards is a good call.
If by big pairs you mean AA, KK, QQ then you are giving up way too much value by not raising these in multiway pots. Many of the callers are likely to have a 25% or less chance of beating you, which is a huge edge in limit hold'em. While this might give them odds to draw on later streets, they are paying for this right with their own money. For example, their flop call with a gutshot might have a +EV of 0.1 big bets, but their pre-flop call of your raise proabbly had an EV of something like -0.5 big bets, which puts you in a better situation than if you hadn't raised.
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 2042 Location: Alameda, CA
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:41 am Post subject:
Thanks -
Well, I said consider. I still raise with big pairs, AA, KK and QQ because I think it is the right thing to do. They get cracked like eggs most of the time in these games but when they do make a big hand you rake in the chips.
I was playing last night at the Bay 101 - I was on a tight table and winning until 3 of the players finally had too much to drink and were on the edge of just plain drunks. The table got so loose that the wheels were falling off. The 3 drunks 'schooled' together and they were hard to beat as a group. There was one good player that I just could not beat - he had good position on me - 2 seats to my right. BTN when I was BB.
I changed tables and got my money back plus some more.
My wife won a rack at 3/6 and then lost it to some very bad and loose players are her table. Remember, we call it 'too many Indians'. Same problem. I explained that she needed to have better hands in those games and that one pair hands are not going to beat 5-6 players chasing you to the river - some one hits 2 pair or better.
Like when she had AK and the board was xxKQ2 and the other player had Q2 - you love it when they miss.
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