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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: river |
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Bet, right? How should I be thinking? (I usually bet river with my worst and check my best) How would you play a non club river?
5/10 Limit Holdem
5 players
Pre-flop: (1.4 SB, 5 players) Hero is CO  
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold
Flop:    (5.0 SB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls
Turn:  (3.5 BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls
River:  (7.5 BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero ? |
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Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2652
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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I would definitely check behind a non-club river. The turn raise can then be viewed as a free showdown raise. Besides, you need to give up on some bluffs on the river anyway, so it makes sense to give up on your 'best' bluffs (most showdown value).
It's closer with the club river. Now you need hands to bluff with the flush coming in. Without the flush, you can simply bluff your weak busted flush draws. I don't mind checking QT behind here, but I think you need it to achieve a high enough bluffing frequency. So I'm inclined to bet this with the club river.
(Note that this also depends on what draws you raise on the flop. If you always wait for the turn, you'd also have hands like 34 and 64 to bluff the river with.)
Don't worry about the bluff not being EV+. Against an optimal opponent, bluffs are by definition EV0. The sole purpose if bluffing is to force your opponent to pay off your valuebets.
Easy game, right.  |
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ImBetterDude
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 695
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know jack about limit hold em, but isn't villain going to call every time on that river getting 8-1? Why throw away a big bet? |
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nsidestrate
Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 22457
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd bet here on a club or a straight and check behind on a blank. |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Willem wrote: | | Besides, you need to give up on some bluffs on the river anyway, so it makes sense to give up on your 'best' bluffs (most showdown value). |
Agree with everything but this. Why do we need to give up on some bluffs on the river? How can he take advantage of us always betting our draw if we have enough valuebets?
Oh, and thanks everone for the feedback! |
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Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2652
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Skrotnisse wrote: | | Agree with everything but this. Why do we need to give up on some bluffs on the river? How can he take advantage of us always betting our draw if we have enough valuebets? |
You can all read about this in TMOP. In a nutshell, you need to bluff the turn with more hand than the river. Hence, you should 'drop' some bluffs there. |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Willem wrote: | | Skrotnisse wrote: | | Agree with everything but this. Why do we need to give up on some bluffs on the river? How can he take advantage of us always betting our draw if we have enough valuebets? |
You can all read about this in TMOP. In a nutshell, you need to bluff the turn with more hand than the river. Hence, you should 'drop' some bluffs there. |
Ok, thank you! If you´re refering to "mathematics of poker", I´m reading that now. Though it´s quite heavy! |
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