Ranges for Opponents

[OhMyHa]

Hey all,
I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Ranges for Opponents.

At the moment I sometimes make notes on the types of hands that opponents are showing up with at showdown, but I would really like to focus more on the ranges that they are playing.The complexity of PLO vs NLHE seems to make thinking about ranges more difficult.

Just wondering what sort of techniques or methods or tricks you use to classify the range of opponents when playing?

Any ideas of suggestions about how to think of ranges, rather than focus on specific hand types, beyond the most broad types of hands AAxx, DS rundowns, 2pair hands etc.?

Any thoughts or ideas?

Cheers
OhMyHa

[germanfalcon]

In one of the ebooks related to 6max NLHE, which advise a very aggresive style and talk about ranges, there was a phrase: "Dont try this in Omahaha".
I think this sums it up real good. Its not as easy, because of the 4 cards, to say this is a setminer, a solid TAG or a totally clueless, put them on ranges and readjust your ranges and bluffs so easily.
I think its good to have read at least one of these 6max NLHE books, doesnt matter which one (CTS, Miller, balugawhale, BobboFitos, Visto, slowhabit to mention a few) and understand the range thing, but you cant fully use it for PLO.

[felt fishing]

I think that understanding the playability of your hand comes first preflop. Since the value of Omaha hands are so close together as long as you are not playing attrocious hands preflop you should be fine getting to the flop where it matters in Omaha. (That doesn't mean that as your experience and knowledge increase, you don't look at preflop play to see where you are losing value.)

The flop comes....ROH? I think it is situation dependent. I don't think you can go by some chart - this guy has a VPIP of 20 so his range is this, a VPIP of 25 is this, etc...

A good example of this is in using Pokerstove for NLHE. If you assign the villan a VPIP of 20, you get hands such as A4s+, A9o+, K9s, K8s, Q9s. Does that mean a 20 VPIP player plays these hands? Of course not. He may opt not to play A6s or A7s for whatever reason, but might add back in something else all depending upon other variables such as position or stack size or player type, etc...

So, what can a player have on the flop? I think it comes down to board texture, bet sizes, player tendencies, position, image, stack sizes, etc... There is no real answer. What about as you increase in stakes? Players play more deceptively. How do you take something like this into account?

Personally, I gave up on trying to create a set ROH. It doesn't make sense to me. Instead, I look at the board texture, then think about the action that has already occurred and go from there. I adjust to what makes sense at that moment in time. This means that each and every hand I must be thinking because each one is different.

If I am OOP, I try to think about what my action means to the other players and how they might respond based upon what ROH they could be holding and their likely responce to my action.

Doing this the game becomes much more fluid allowing me to adjust instead of playing a more static type of game because I categorize and assign ranges in an almost robotic fashion.

[surprise and fear]

[Willem]

[MaxStPolish]

ranges is generally a fruitless effort in omaha IMO. The best you can do is build a history vs. an opponent to begin to understand the moves he makes situationally.
Even during a random HU session, you can begin to glean basic ideas of what moves your opponent is capable of, etc.

[ac on]

I know this is an old thread, but assigning ranges of specific hands is going to be futile. That does not mean it's pointless to try to assign your opponent a range of possible hand strengths.

I mean, you've still got nuts, air, and all the stuff in between. Hands exist along a continuum in strength from the nuts to the air, and it's your job to figure out how your opponent acts with hands of various strength.

Sometimes, your opponent will be so predictable that it will be possible to assign him a specific hand, e.g., the nut flush. Usually, though, your opponent will have a variety of hands. If you imagine a number line, with hands getting weaker to one side and stronger toward the other, try to also imagine a highlighter over a portion (or portions) of it that your opponent could have when he acts a certain way.

From here, try to think about how you can narrow this range more when your own hand is weak and make it wider when your own hand is strong.

[richie1008]

What I try do is to assign the probability that a specific combination of cards is within the range of my opponent,e. g. on a flop with preflop raising of 2 6 J rainbow it is unlikely that anyone has bottom set (or a set of 6s), top two pair or even bottom two pair. Apart from that there are just general guidelines like that people are more probable to play high cards than low cards.

[OhMyHa]

Thanks for the feedback.
I certainly think that there are a variety of ways to think about the ranges of opponents. Different techniques will work in different ways for different people, but thinking about their ranges at all is an important step to developing our skills.

While its almost impossible to put people on a hand in Omaha compared with Texas, not thinking about ranges of opponents is surely a leak in our game.

Thanks again to everyone who offered options for thinking about ranges, its certainly food for thought

Cheers

[lolercoasterrr]

i generally tend to stick ranges to solid rundowns or AAxx type-hands, specifically when it's 3-bet. for example, i'll note when villain 3-bets something other than AA in the small blind, or whether or not that means its always going to be AA every time.