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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: poker mindset |
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reaction to a bad beat. I finished the book. I am playing at bay 101. I flop the nut flush with KQs and get beat by a runner full house AKo.
AJ55A
I took a break to see if I can compose myself. |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: poker mindset |
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| AlamedaMike wrote: | reaction to a bad beat. I finished the book. I am playing at bay 101. I flop the nut flush with KQs and get beat by a runner full house AKo.
AJ55A
I took a break to see if I can compose myself. |
It took me about 3 minutes to accept the reality of poker and go back to the table in a relaxed mood. |
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chrisjp
Mr. Lovable
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 4991
Location: Round Rock, TX and Las Vegas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Three minutes, not bad. Nice composure. Piemaster and Matthew would be proud of you.  |
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chillrob
1K Club
Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1117
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Mike, are you actually posting live from a cardroom?
Rob |
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Piemaster
Author of THE POKER MINDSET
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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We may have missed a trick there in TPM. If you take a bad beat, leave the table, find the nearest internet cafe and post the bad beat on a poker forum. Return to the table relaxed  |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| chrisjp wrote: | | Three minutes, not bad. Nice composure. Piemaster and Matthew would be proud of you. |
thanks, the book helped alot. I have a palm with internet access. |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| chillrob wrote: | Mike, are you actually posting live from a cardroom?
Rob |
Yes, as I said above I have a Treo 700sp - I can access the Internet so while waiting for a table I read articles and browse the forum. I was in the middle of the game and got OUCHED - It was fresh on my mind so I posted it. 
Overall, the book was very helpful, it along with ZEN will help a poker player deal with the realities of poker. Back when I had a very reasonable reaction to bad beats but over the past few months it was wearying on me.
Reading TPM helped me get a grip and deal with it. I am now back to the acceptance level (3) but I do not think that I will ever make level (4). ZEN recommend complete indifference as to who wins the pot and TPM said that you need to accept the reality and be indifferent to the bad beat. I paraphrased here since I have only read the book one time.
there is a world of good information that I can relate to and it is something that I have realized for quite awhile.
I have understood the realities of poker, luck is king in the short run, etc. for a long time.
I lost a lot of good hands last night and I must say that I handled the loses very well. Some were suckouts, some were just bad cards falling but in almost all cases I had the best of it going in, what else can I ask for.
Twice I had the nut flush and was rivered, but I was ahead by at least 75%. Twice I was beat by a 4 flush, you figure the odds. I was able to take a lot of gamble out of my game (I will not admit that I was gambling before - I always play good cards, I never tilt, never chase unprofitable draws and poker players never lie. )
So today, even after having lost last night (not important in the long run) I am right with the world and sailing on a even keel. (I did not strangle the drunk in seat 8 and get arrested ... just kidding, I'm not a violent person - he was nice enough to pass around his chips even thought he hit his 3 outter (my kicker gave him a straight) - I was able to get my money back thought his kindness - e.g. bad play, he would raise with one pair no kicker  )
Thanks very much to Ian and to Matt for a book that is well worth its weight in gold (1970's price of $35 an ounce, that is  ).
I do not need to but I will read it again and I will read ZEN one more time as well.
You could make another thread just on TPM since there is so much information that is relevant to the way poker is played today and we could discuss it for a long time (I finished it in one day). |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Last night I was playing 6/12 - typical Friday night at the local card room.
I was racking to go after booking a nice win. I had been lucky and hit a lot of good hands. Some lost but the majority won.
I picked up   and decided to play it for a raise. I flopped    - very nice, bet and was called in 5 or 6 spots. The turn was  , now, I figured that I would win this hand and book a very nice win indeed.
Watch out for the big comeuppance.
The river was a  and that put a flush on the board. I bet and I was raised so I re-raised, and he re-raised me - I studied the board and wondered what he had. I should have wonder before now. Maybe J8 or J6 even 66 - two other hands AJ and AA were possible but I felt unlikely. Since he just CALLED all the way.
I called and he had AA of course - the only thing that upset me, other than the cold deck, was that I think I raise 1 time too many?
Not a bad bead but a lose of a large pot with a lot of my chips in it. - This is covered in TPM. I was leaving anyway so I continued with my plan and left.
I think that I was able to handle the loss just fine, I just think that extra raise was wrong.
So how many time to re-raise here? 1, 2, 
This guy had had Aces about 3-4 times in this session - he did not re-raise me on the flop - tricky old man.
Thanks |
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nsidestrate
Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 22390
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| You have to know the other player very well to stop raising on that board. J8 and 88 also play that way and are behind. Many players are bad enough to do that with trips or the flush as well. I think you lost the right amount unless you know he is a mega-rock. |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nsidestrate wrote: | | You have to know the other player very well to stop raising on that board. J8 and 88 also play that way and are behind. Many players are bad enough to do that with trips or the flush as well. I think you lost the right amount unless you know he is a mega-rock. |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| AlamedaMike wrote: | | chrisjp wrote: | | Three minutes, not bad. Nice composure. Piemaster and Matthew would be proud of you. |
thanks, the book helped a lot. I have a palm with Internet access. |
I do not know how many times that I can say this but reading this book has done wonders for my poker mindset. I am (at this point and hope I stay there) at level 3.8 on a scale of 1-4 regarding losing a big pot (Section 4.2 page 86 of the book).
1- anger
2- frustration
3- acceptance
4- indifference
It is now almost humorous to watch the other players get angry and frustrated - I see some (very few) players take it in stride - several years ago I was at level 3.2 or so and slipped into level 1.5-2.5 or so. The book was instrumental in move me back up
Thanks Matt and Ian.
BTW, I know that this sounds bad but I am not sure if I want your book to sell well?
I wonder how the games would go if all the players had read and studied your book? The games would have a lot less anger directed at players, that is for sure. But, they may be even harder to beat than they are now.
I have always suspected that my issues were psychological because I am a bright, smart and talented guy, just ask me.
-------------------- Vietnam circa 1967 ------------------
I am playing 7 card stud pot limit ($50 buyin) with my co-workers. Most of which are much older than I am and have played a lot more 7-stud. One old man, and I mean about 55 (remember that was a long time ago so I was in my early 20's) would beat me and call me a fish. He would just say that I had gills - of course I had not where else to play so he did not mind taping on the aquarium - I just tried to play better against him which was not easy.
Interesting that I still remember it, huh.
Now off the couch and back play. |
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mchilger
ITH Founder and Poker Author
Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 5794
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Alemeda, it is our hope and belief that there are many players like you, smart talented people who could never do well because they let their emotions affect their game in a bad way. We can only hope that many more people will have the same feedback about the book.
One little story on acceptance and indifference. During my 2004 WSOP, I was kind of like in another little world. Everything seemed very surreal to me. When I lose my aces, of course I reacted immediately but I was seriously back in the zone shortly thereafter. I had reached that goal of "indifference". Next time I go deep I want to have more fun which I did in 2005.
2004 made me realize that I need to have more fun while playing, hence Chapter 10 and the additional mindset, "Remember, poker is just a game". Reaching that point where you are indifferent about your results in terms of wins and losses but still maintain some emotion to enjoy the game is a great state to be in.
Matthew |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mchilger wrote: | Alameda, it is our hope and belief that there are many players like you, smart talented people who could never do well because they let their emotions affect their game in a bad way. We can only hope that many more people will have the same feedback about the book.
One little story on acceptance and indifference. During my 2004 WSOP, I was kind of like in another little world. Everything seemed very surreal to me. When I lose my aces, of course I reacted immediately but I was seriously back in the zone shortly thereafter. I had reached that goal of "indifference". Next time I go deep I want to have more fun which I did in 2005.
2004 made me realize that I need to have more fun while playing, hence Chapter 10 and the additional mindset, "Remember, poker is just a game". Reaching that point where you are indifferent about your results in terms of wins and losses but still maintain some emotion to enjoy the game is a great state to be in.
Matthew |
Thanks Matt,
That is where I want to be. You are there and maybe I will be there (4.0) soon. This is what ZEN writes about as well but your book puts it better IMO. I do hope your book sells well and you guys make a ton of money on it.
I am re-reading TOP now and the first chapter echo's the points that you make. I got off track and wondered down the dark roads and now I am back on track.
Yes, chapter 10 is a good one - it is a game and there is more to life than poker. If playing poker affects your life in a negative way then you need to correct that.
I spent some nice quality time with my 4 year old granddaughter on Sunday
Michael aka DuesRwild
(remember DuesRwild from PokerShool.com - if you do you have a good memory - I have an autographed copy of ITH. |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I am loyal but not to a fault - I sometimes cross post on different forums to get a wider audience. I'm not sure what the breakdown for live vs. online players post here. I mostly play live and the play is slightly different - 1) you will find more bad players in live games. 2) it is not as easy to play live so I play less hands and less sessions that a typical online player.
I read and and studied TPM and I only needed to read it once to get the point. As I have said it has readjusted my mindset and now I think it is a good one.
I was playing against some bad players and they were beating me. I figured that my table image was shot, and I kept getting beat so I changed tables. I mentioned this on another forum and got hammered - they implied that I had a bad poker mindset. "Why would you leave a good game because you were losing?"
Mainly because I figured that I could not win at this table anymore, it was no longer fun and I wanted a change.
If you see my post under Rave you will see that I love to play against bad players. I am happy when they call me with worse hands. Bad beats are my friend. But, sometimes you need to leave a good table for whatever reason and find another table with bad players that do not know you are getting beat like a drum.
Yesterday a player called me 2 times with Ace rag and got trip rags on the turn. Good for her. No only did I not say anything, I was happy that she would call me with only 3 outs. A player got a gutshot straight with 52o on the turn (3A642) and check raised me - thank you - I folded and saved a bet (he split with a player with A5). I was happy he called with 52o and told me his hand with a c/r. He could have gotten an extra bet on the river (had the 2 not hit). I had AQd and he had 52o - who was the favorite preflop and flop when an Ace hit.
Oh, well - I should practice safe posting. Watch were I put my post. |
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AlamedaMike
2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 2042
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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The continuing saga of my poker mindset -
I almost lost it last night playing 6/12 - I got drawn out on a huge pot - I have top 2 KQd on a KQ8 all heart board in a 6 way capped pot - I bet the flop and was heads up with a player that called with 45o - 5 of hearts - - 9h hit the river and I lost -
This hand did not bother me at all. ! However, I did miss the money. I was surprised that the player called 3-bets and even capped it with this hand but I was happy that he would do that.
I will take KQs vs 45o any day.
But, where I almost lost it was on another table against a player that would play any 2 cards but he did play well after the flop - his smug attitude that he was a great player and could play any 2 cards and win did irritate me and the table.
However, even thought I was very angry with him inside I was able to recover in 15 minutes and forget he even existed. Also, I never let him know or anyone else know that I was seething for a bit.  
I simply said 'nice hand' in a even tone each time he beat me and did not engage him in converstation.
JJ vs 94o and QQ vs 93o -
The next time we meet I will continue to play good cards and let him play all the trash he wants. |
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