poker mindset and attitude

[AlamedaMike]

Hi - some random thoughts... not to construed as whining. This is most likely a normal session for most people that are average players.

Standard low limit game that I have been posting hands. After a few orbits I get suited face cards UTG+1, UTG folds and raise all fold. Next hand UTG I get A-A and raise and all fold. Okay, I won. No playable hands until UTG again with 88, so I limp, flop a set and villain gets a runner runner gutshot on the river. Okay, happens. A few hands later I get A-A UTG raise and only the BB calls, he checks and folds the flop to my bet.

I get K-Js EP3 and I limp after 1 player, 5 to the flop which is 3-J-7 rainbow, BB bets, I raise, they fold to BB, turn is K, he bets, I raise, he calls, river is a 4 still rainbow, he bets, I call and BB has 3-3. That did not work.

I get A-Qo EP3 and limp first in. Everyone folds to the SB who completes. Flop has a Ace, they check, I bet, they fold. That did not work. BB said had 9-9.

Later, I get 8-8 UTG and this time I raise and 3 guys call. Flop misses me and I check and fold, pickup my chips and go home.

It is obvious to me that I need to work on my game some more. My rhythm is off and my interest is waining.

Now I'm whining - you can skip this part.

I am losing interest in playing poker. It's getting to the point that am unwilling to drive the 11.4 miles to the card room unless I am out for some other reason (last night I needed to send in some amended tax returns so I stopped by the card room - played 1.5 hours and left). My sessions are becoming fewer and shorter.

My brother-in-law is an inscrutable China-man. One time several years ago we were discussing relationships with woman. He came up with a simple acid test - Him: Do you miss her? Me: Well, come to think of it, no. Him: Then that's your answer.

I have been playing less poker lately - do I miss playing poker? Come to think of it, No. Hum..... what does that tell me? So, ask yourself why do you play poker? It's a hobby or maybe a habit - hum... Then just find another hobby, one that interest you.

So, I do not a psychologist after all.

[Willem]

Well, I see no reason whatsoever why you should play if you don't feel like playing. I think playing poker is a horrible way to spend your time if you are not enjoying yourself. Maybe you need a break?

As for your session, I don't see any mistakes, maybe raise the AQo from EP3. I would probably lose even more than you did (raise the river with KJ vs 33).

[AlamedaMike]

[toronexti]

[AlamedaMike]

[Piemaster]

[Bluedaq]

[AlamedaMike]

A lot of this game is emotional control. I have pounded the ITH Psychology forum on this a lot. I still have issues even after advice from Dr Al, reading TPM, YWPE and ZEN.

Today I was playing online 2/4 and just getting beat on like a red haired stepchild. Down 45 big bets. Just like live games. After a bit I noticed that it started to affect how I played the game. I did not play my strong hands strong enough since I constantly lost with them over and over. I became afraid to bet TPTK after I was raised! Playing scared is no way to play, but I could not help myself. Finally, I either had to quit or regroup and play the way I should.

I settled down and concentrated on playing nice and tight. Not taking a lot of chances. I would fold TPTK and 2-pair hands to a raise and a re-raise back to me. So far all the folds were good ones.

I am slowly regaining some of my 'lost' chips. Now down only 35 bb.

It's how you play the hand not whether you won or lost. Not making mistakes is the key. Taking ten loses in a row with the best hand until the river happens and is part of the game.

As Zen says watch the flow of the game and the good cards will start to flow your way. I need to stay off tilt.

I have seen this scenario play out so many times over the years that by now I should be used to it, ya think.

It's only 2 racks of chips which is a normal swing but so many in a row - yikes!

I quit for today.

[Fast Eddy]

I think the answer depends on the person. For the most part I play because I enjoy the game. I've never played for very big stakes and just play when I feel the urge. I don't really see the point otherwise. If you have some larger poker goals, then I guess you play to achieve those goals in addition to the enjoyment.

If you play for the money, you have to ask yourself if the money you earn is worth trading for whatever else you'd do with that time if you weren't playing.

I think a lot of us are caught between some of these clear cut distinctions and get to a point where you are. I have always thought I'd like to play some big tournaments some day (maybe the WSOP) but mostly I play because I enjoy the game. My playing history is marked by periods of intense involvement followed by periods (multiple months) where I don't play at all. I would guess you're not entirely decided on why you play.

[AlamedaMike]

Lately, I have taken to playing on weekends and mostly for the fun of it - I have concluded that I will most likely not be able to beat the game for any real money.

Any dreams that I might have had have long been crushed into oblivion.

[AlamedaMike]

The psychology of the game is a bugger. My lack of progress is depressing me - not much but a little.

Assumption #1. Low limit hold'em can beat beat if you employ the correct techniques and requisite discipline.

I often ask myself a few questions. Am I improving or am I spinning my wheels? I answer. Mostly spinning my wheels, but some improvement.

Question. Have I improved enough to beat the game? I answer. No.

Question. Will I learn enough to beat the game? Answer. Based on recent results the answer is not anytime soon.

let's say that I need 100% knowledge if applied to be a consistent winner at Limit Hold'em. Let's further assume that I learned 80% of that in the first year and that I am now applying 100% of that knowledge.

Well, by definition I am lacking. Let's further assume that I post hands, I study books and I play poker for another 3 years. Can I consistently beat the game. Not yet but losing less.

So, I am consistently losing less as time goes on so I am improving. But, not more than 2-3% per year.

The problem is that I am not improving sufficiently to consistently finish in the black at the end of the year.

So, I need a plan because given assumption #1 what I am doing is not working.

For instance I post a hand (short to conserve space).

Hi - online 1/2 game.

Hand #1 - I pick up Kh-Kd UTG and I raise, folded to the SB who calls and the BB calls. The flop is Ks, 4h, 2h. The SB bets, BB folds and I ???.

Question is it better to raise now or wait until the turn or river. I give some pros and some cons and refer to an online article that discusses the issues.

And I get a reply. Let's assume that the reply is that I should (since I am HU and I have the Kh) raise on the turn. If a heart falls at least I have outs to a full house or a King high flush.

Let's further stipulate that the reply is correct. Have I learned anything? No, since that was my play. It did reinforce that I made the correct play.

But, that is my opinion and the opinion of another player - it does not make it correct. Now, I go though life playing the same way.

Humm - something is wrong with the way that I am studying poker. First, like DR Al says active learing is better in most cases. Second, you need to have a very good course outline to learn a topic well.

So, less than hiring a coach I need to re-evaluate the way I study poker. Create a lesson plan etc and at the same time deal with the psych issues.

It takes several thousand of hands to see if you are any good at it.

I think I need to find one leak and work on that leak until it is plugged. The find another leak and so forth. That might be the best approach but one I will try for now.

[Piemaster]

[the_hawk]

[pokerihid]

Mike,

Maybe you should try playing some no-limit.
I've tried playing limit and I don't do well because its all too simplistic (I'm not saying its easy or simple - but the lack of choices make me feel that I'm not so much in control).

With no-limit you have so many more choices and so many more ways to influence he game. By being able to vary bets and raises you can control the odds, make better bluffs etc.

I'm not saying no-limit is better (this isn't a troll!!), just that for me I find it more interesting and challenging and get much more satisfaction from it. Every game is much more of a new and different challenge and therefore I find it much more exciting.

I hope you start enjoying playing again.
Take a break over Christmas - enjoy some family time and maybe read a good NL book then come back and give it a try in the new year.

Happy playing!
Jez

[AlamedaMike]