play these jacks?

[MXRider]

Villain had only one round and no stats to speak of.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($7.45)
Hero ($26.75)
MP ($15.95)
CO ($7.90)
Button ($29.90)
SB ($26.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
Hero raises to $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button raises to $4, 2 folds, MX?

[Damo_1]

Call and setmine without any other info imo. Take notes if it goes to showdown.

[emmapeel]

This situation has always puzzled me.

This is the 4th best hand so I should call here. But what type of flop am I looking for? Apart from a set that is.

1/ What do I do with 2nd pair here? I think that is a check-fold.

2/ What about an overpair? Surely this is next best to a set. However I still may lose a lot to a bigger pair and it is hard to see me winning a lot against a weaker hand. I'm not sure that an over-pair is such a good thing.

It almost looks like calling with 22 is better than calling with JJ here. At least I won't lose a lot in the over-card vs overcard situation with 22.

It's still a puzzle to me but I'm still calling here. It's the 4th best hand so I can't fold it.

EP

[Zool1]

Easy fold - this is a terrible spot. Don't have anywhere close to set mining odds (you're getting like 8:1 ), oop vs an unknown... there's just no way you can call and play this profitably.

[Damo_1]

[mash_tun]

[Zool1]

Yeah 4-betting in general is an option in spots like this, but readless it's utter spew.

[MXRider]

[Damo_1]

Ok, after showing so much strength PF you've got almost a perfect flop (barring a J or two!). I'd make a pot-commiting bet and be looking to get it all in now.

[Zool1]

[ciaran]

Temporarily moved here from NL and bumped for our expert's opinions.

[NickChristenson]

This is another very tough situation, no doubt about it. I think an argument can be made for taking just about any action, and certainly reads about the situation would definitely sway any decision I would make.

The key for me is that whatever you do pre-flop, it should be with a plan for what to do on the flop. So, here's how I think about the situation.

If there is good reason to think the BB wouldn't make this move with hands less than QQ, then I think folding is probably the best bet. If AK (suited and not) and TT are in the mix, then I think you pretty much need to play it. If AQ hands are in the mix, then I think playing is a done deal. I don't have an evaluation of this, but for the sake of argument, let's presume that the range of hands is pairs down to TT, AKs, AKoff.

Let's look at calling. Obviously, if a jack hits the board and nothing pathological happens, we're going with the hand for our stack. Also, I think it's plain that if an ace or king comes on the flop, we go into check-and-fold mode. There are two tough situations, one where the flop comes Q high, one where the flop is all ten or lower.

If I can really rule out AQ, then I'm going to treat these situations as the same. I won't fault anyone who reasons, "I don't want to play this hand out of position against any overcard." But, if there's about a 57% chance of an overcard coming on the flop, and you're not going have any chance of winning the pot when this happens, then what's your equity in making the pre-flop call? You've got a 57% chance of an overpair coming, in which case you lose the $3 you've invested calling the raise, and even if the flop is favorable, you win a $9 pot against AK but lose a lot against QQ, KK or AA.

Of course, nothing makes you call if the flop comes 8-high, you check, and BB bets. But I would say that if you're going to check and fold if the flop comes 8-high, then you really can't call pre-flop. Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to make this decision *before* calling pre-flop.

Unless a jack comes (or, in some sense, if the flop comes AKQ), you don't have an easy decision on the flop. One thing I advocate in big-bet poker, is if it's likely you'll face a difficult decision on a later street, and there's an action you can take on an earlier street that will make that decision easier, performing such an action is generally a good thing to do. Is that the case here? I think it is.

If one agrees that jacks are too good a hand to fold (arguable, but defensible), and we've seen that if we call we probably put ourselves in a bind on the flop, so I prefer raising here to get our opponent to help define his hand. If he has aces or kings, he'll probably jam and we can lay our hand down with a clear conscience. If he has any other hand, then our opponent is put to a difficult decision himself. Remember, it is we who have just three-bet pre-flop from early position. If we were in our opponent's position, what would we do with AK? How about AQ? How about QQ? How about TT? If we dislike it when our opponents put us to a difficult decision, we should relish the opportunity to put our oppoents in that spot.

I don't expect that most opponents will be able to jam without at least queens here. If they can jam with AKs, then good for them. If they just call, then we can adopt the strategy that if an AK comes on the flop, we'll be wary, if not, we'll assume we have the best hand and look to get our chips in the pot. (Note that by four betting ourselves, if the flop comes AK and we check, our opponents are much more likely to be wary themselves than if we had just called pre-flop.)

So, the question remains, how much to raise? If we make it, say, $15 to go and our opponent goes all-in, then the pot is about $45, we've got $11 left. The pot is giving us about 9-2 odds, about the same odds we'd have against an overpair, so we're pot stuck. So, I don't like this bet size, because by making it, I'm not giving myself any choices.

What if we make it $10 to go, and our opponent jams, then we've got about a $40 pot and we have $16 left, we can fold to a jam if we can exclude AK from his range of hands. If we raise less than this, then we're giving our opponent pot odds to call, so this is probably around the sweet spot if we're going to raise. If we're going to raise, it pretty much has to be in the $11 to $12 range.

Let's change the situation slightly. If both we and the Button had, say, $35 in our stacks, then I'd say the reraise (to somewhere in the $12 to $15 range) is an even stronger play, as we can make a more typical raise without committing ourselves. If we were deeper, say, with $40+ stacks, then we could call and "set mine". If, instead, we had only $18 in our stack, then if our opponent's range of hands includes AK and TT, I think we can justify jamming. In between these two stack sizes, we're in a rough spot, and I think with a stack in this range folding is a comparatively better play than with other stack sizes, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the hand.