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chillin411
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: Piemaster Article - Spotting the Sucker |
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http://www.internettexasholdem.com/poker-columnists/ian-taylor-aka-piemaster/spotting-the-sucker/
“If you can’t spot the sucker within 30 minutes of being at the table then you’re the sucker.”
I’m sure we’ve all heard this cliché before. It’s true that if you are a competent player, you will usually spot several mistakes made by your opponents at the table quite quickly. If you don’t spot any you should probably find a better game. Providing you are observant (or cheat by using Poker Tracker and a heads-up display) within half an hour you should have a good idea who the weak players at the table are. |
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ResumeMan
1K Club
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1496
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | However, there may be other reasons that a player buys in for a strange amount. Maybe they have moved table and they want to sit down with the same amount that they left with so they can keep score. Or maybe it’s the opposite, they deliberately buying in for strange amounts so they can’t keep score. An odd buy-in amount is not enough by itself to label a bad player.
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I do this routinely (not saying whether I'm a good player or bad lol). It's a somewhat-in-vain effort to avoid being too results oriented. I sit down with a pretty random amount, and hope that I don't remember what it was when it starts fluctuating, so I can just focus on the game. Sometimes I'll add a few random chips too.
I tried using tiltblocker for awhile, but I kept being concerned that if I was running bad I'd drop under 12BBs, and that would be bad.
It helps a little, but not that much. |
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Wynton
Sharkapalooza 2 MVP
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 5575
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting. It never occurred to me someone would buy in for a strange amount, specifically in order to avoid keeping score. |
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Piscivorous
Bamboozler
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 4908
Location: Just being lovable
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: |
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One more tell, Piemaster:
Players who habitually show their cards when they don't have to are generally poor players. |
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chillrob
1K Club
Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1117
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I often use the preset button preflop (especially in Omaha, but sometimes in Holdem as well) when I know that I will call if it is not raised before it gets to me; in most cases usually doesn't matter to me how many other people have called before it gets to me (if I am in late position and no one has entered by the time I have decided whether to play my hand or not I will wait as I might want to raise first in). Is this really a tell of some sort? Does it show weakness on my part?
Rob |
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fep
53o
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 3107
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Re: strange buy-ins...
Geo does that (or used to do that). He would keep rebuying for odd amounts so he couldn't tell if he was up or down. He did it so he wouldn't be results orientated. |
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dev_cat
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 453
Location: Sheffield UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Nice article Pie!
I've seen regular, probably winning players buy in for random amounts, and I always assumed it was to create the impression that they are a weak opponent buying in for their entire bankroll. |
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ResumeMan
1K Club
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1496
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| fep wrote: | Re: strange buy-ins...
Geo does that (or used to do that). He would keep rebuying for odd amounts so he couldn't tell if he was up or down. He did it so he wouldn't be results orientated. |
That may well have been where I got the idea. |
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florian
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 380
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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re: Using auto-action buttons
I use the autobet button for all my cont-bets at the flop close to 100 percent... |
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Piemaster
Author of THE POKER MINDSET
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| chillrob wrote: | I often use the preset button preflop (especially in Omaha, but sometimes in Holdem as well) when I know that I will call if it is not raised before it gets to me; in most cases usually doesn't matter to me how many other people have called before it gets to me (if I am in late position and no one has entered by the time I have decided whether to play my hand or not I will wait as I might want to raise first in). Is this really a tell of some sort? Does it show weakness on my part?
Rob |
Not exactly. This isn't an article about stuff you shouldn't do, but how you spot weak players. In some circumstances it is okay to use the auto-action buttons, it's just that most good players don't because they recognise that overall they are a bad habit to get into.
For example, in your situation, if you use the auto-call to enter the pot that indicates that you were going to call regardless of how many other people were in the pot. I'm no Omaha expert, but mighten that narrow your hand range somewhat to the observant player? |
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taz115
Hzamm9rd, Yo!!!
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 8383
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Good article Pie!
I routinely use stack sizes to search for tables at the biggers sites. I am looking for 2-3 players with stacks under 15-20BB. This is one of my most reliable indicators that a table is good to play at.
The sites that where the default buy-in is your whole BR are a good indicator of how much money a player has at a site. If a player buys-in for 202.45 at a 5/10 table you hope he is sitting to right. I have found the Party 25BB buy-in a good indicator as well. You generally want players buying in for less than that at your table. |
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dev_cat
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 453
Location: Sheffield UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| taz115 wrote: | I routinely use stack sizes to search for tables at the biggers sites. I am looking for 2-3 players with stacks under 15-20BB. This is one of my most reliable indicators that a table is good to play at.
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I do exactly the same thing.
Also, I avoid players who sit a table with (presumably) their entire bankroll, which is ample for playing at the limit and shows they probably make a profit. |
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mave
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
Location: middletown ct
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: a comment about piemasters article about spotting the sucker |
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first i would like to say this is just my opionon and has no reflection on how pie plays . he must be a very good player if he has been asked to write this article . but to me the way the first part was written stating.
"I’m sure we’ve all heard this cliché before. It’s true that if you are a competent player, you will usually spot several mistakes made by your opponents at the table quite quickly. If you don’t spot any you should probably find a better game. Providing you are observant (or cheat by using Poker Tracker and a heads-up display) within half an hour you should have a good idea who the weak players at the table are."
it just says to me tht either he is a very compentent player who just knows about poker tracker and a heads up display. or he has used it or is still using it, and by doing so in his own article admitted to cheating . now i dont know pie personally , or how he plays . but in my opinion the way the article is written it screams to me one of the 2 previous statements i made. and any one who has to use this type of software regardless of the level of play he or she is capable of doesnt really want to put in the work it takes to earn the status of a pro. All they see is the all mighty dollar sign . to me the money is the reward for a game well played and not taking a short cut. |
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mave
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 25
Location: middletown ct
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| i will also say tht the rest of the article was very informative ty pie just tht one area i have a problem with i just find cheaters very i cant even think of the word to best or shall i say worst to describe them. to me you either play fair or not at all if all you can do to get ahead is cheat . i am sorry piemaster if my words have angred or upset you in anyway . for tht wasnt my intent. |
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Piemaster
Author of THE POKER MINDSET
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Hi Mave, welcome to the forum.
Poker Tracker is not cheating, it is a tool that allows you to track your opponents tendancies (such as how often they raise, how often they enter pots etc). I'll freely admit to using it, it is a great tool. It is not banned at any poker site with which it is compatible and it doesn't give you an unfair advantage in that it doesn't tell you aything you couldn't find out yourself through careful observation. Check it out at pokertracker.com
I used the word 'cheat' in the flippant sense of the word, in the same way that when you are cooking dinner you might 'cheat' by using a ready made sauce rather than making your own. I didn't intend to imply that using tools such as Poker Tracker was in any way underhand or unfair, just that it made the job of spotting weak players easier.
I hope this makes sense, I am sometimes guilty of using British phrases without realising it and this might possibly have been the case here. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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