Piemaster Article - A Sideways Look at Bonus Chasing

[chillin411]

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/poker-columnists/ian-taylor-aka-piemaster/a-sideways-look-at-bonus-chasing/

"The culture of bonus chasing is now a well-established one amongst online poker players. This isn’t an article about how to make the most money while bonus chasing or the best bonuses to go for. I am not well qualified to discuss that subject, plus there is already plenty of information out there on that very topic (for example on the bonus chasing forum on this site). This article is actually about the other side of bonus chasing. The effect it has on the mindset and development of the poker player."

[taz115]

Interesting article Pie,

I have seen your posts in the past about working your way up the limits the hard way. I really believe that your game has developed as a result of your dedication and I hope to be able to do the same with my game.

But I think what is overlooked by proponents of 'always do what improves your game best' is the fact that the end goal of many bonus chasers is not to improve their game to the best that it can be. Many of them are quite content grinding it out at slightly positive or negative at 2/4 and making $1k a month in bonuses.

I think that many players do fall into the traps that you describe but for the dedicated bonus chasers, playing 5/10 profitably is simply not a goal of theirs. I fall somewhere in between. I enjoy improving my game but I play for the highest value bonuses I can find. The trade-off for me is slower improvement of my game for increased profitability now.

I think you also miscategorize unhappy 5/10 players as likely bonus chasers unable to adapt to higher limits. There are unhappy players at every limit, and I really think the number of chasers that try and play at 5/10 is small.

Anyway, I don't want to bash your article because I think it outlines some of the downfalls of bonus chasing very nicely. But I do feel that the motivation of bonus chasers is often misunderstood by successful players that have never really bonus chased before.

taz115

[fep]

Being a bonus chaser I'm curious how you determined

"the other side of bonus chasing. The effect it has on the mindset and development of the poker player."

Thinking that I know my mindset, I see things very differently than what you outlined. But I'm just a sample of one.

[the_hawk]

This is an interesting article. There are just a few issues with it. Taking your "problems with bonus chasing" in turn and talking (mostly) about my own experience:

1. There is no incentive to improve your game: this could be true, and may well be for some players, but is most definitely not in my case. In any case, as Taz points out above, this need not be an issue for some bonus chasers anyway.

2. You will move up limits too quickly: there's a lot of it about, that's for sure, and bonuses do have something to answer for in terms of people moving up limits, that's for sure, but at the end of the day this is really about people overplaying their bankroll and/or their skill level. How they got to their over-inflated level doesn't really matter; just think of the rich college kids messing around with Daddy's money in 5/10 or 10/20 (money that is now helping you make your living).

3. You are shielded from the reality of poker: patent nonsense. I can speak from straightforward personal experience here. A 200BB downswing is a 200BB downswing whatever way you look at it, and whether you're chasing bonus or not. If you're properly bankrolled (and I am extremely "properly" so) you will deal with it, if you're not, you won't. Bonus has jack to do with it one way or the other.

4. Your true ability is clouded: again, pretty much nonsense if you use PT. It's there in black and white (or rather, red )

5. You start to play at bad times and in bad games: this sounds good, but to be honest it's an easy target for an article-writer to grab hold of, but is largely a theoretical finger-wagging topic and doesn't bear all that much resemblence to the reality of many bonus chasers, most of the time. My bonus chasing is mostly (not entirely, admitted, but mostly) at sites I would play without a bonus if none were available.

[taz115]

I hope the bonus chasers don't line up to fry Piemaster here. I really think that every point he makes has its applications and that bonus chasing does exhibit all of the risks he outlines. I just think that poker players in general can also exhibit these attributes independent of bonus chasing and what it really comes down to is the mindset and focus of the player rather than whether or not they choose to chase bonuses.

I really don't think Pie set out to dispute this fact, but simply point out some of the common downfalls that bonus chasing can entail. I'm sure he also anticipated some rebuttals from the chasers here at ITH

I think the article is great, but I think it is not complete without this side of the coin.

taz115

[Piemaster]

[fep]

Pie, apparantly bonus chasers are very sensiive types.

But seriously, a few months ago I set aside bonus chasing and just played "naked" at Partypoker. I played 6 max 3 tabling at 2/4 and 3/6 fixed limit. I was thinking that would be higher EV than chasing my typical bonuses. Unfortunately, I went on a 200 BB tear in the wrong direction.

Now zoom to the last couple of days. I've been bonus chasing the cryptos. And because of less traffic and tougher players on average I've been playing only one table.

One tableing = better for my poker devlopment, imo.
Tougher opponents = better for my poker development, imo.

Therefore for me bonus chasing is better for my poker development (and less variance too). Just kidding, bonus chasing has nothing to do with it, the reality is I could single table and play tougher opponents whether I was bonus chasing or not which is the point I'm trying to make.

I understand how you could logically think that bonus chasing causes players to fall into the traps that you describe but I think that position is about as invalid and unsubstantiated as people saying that smoking pot leads to herion use. Imo, players fall in those traps because of their nature not because they bonus chase.

So I think you did write an article that did a good job of documenting "traps" to avoid and how to avoid them. I just don't agree that bonus chasing is what really causes players to fall into those traps.

[the_hawk]

Not taken personally in the slightest by this correspondent. If "putting the other side of the argument and hopefully stimulating some debate" means "sensitive" then I apologise.

[Piemaster]

[fep]

Okay, I'll agree that it is logical that it could be a catalyst.

Bonus chasing is to falling into traps
as
Owning a Ferrari is to speeding

And if I was making $10,000 a month chasing bonuses instead of about $500 in bonuses per month then I suppose I could easily fall into those traps. But at bonuses of $500 per month poker is still about poker not about chasing bonuses.

[Piemaster]

[the_hawk]

Pie - ISTM we don't really disagree about all that much here. As I see it, the issues you are raising here are really "general" poker issues - bankroll management, self-discipline and so on.

You're saying that bonus chasing can turn basically disciplined players into less disciplined ones. And that is true - it is doubtful that chasing could ever make a player more disciplined than they would otherwise be.

I would maintain that this effect is probably less pronounced than your article suggests, however - and that generally speaking, there will be more disciplined players and less disciplined ones. Sure, there are rather indisciplined players who chase bonuses and do better than they perhaps "deserve" as a result, but most of these would be indisciplined players whether chasing bonuses or not. Similarly, disciplined players would be disciplined players whether benefiting from bonuses or not.

The number of players pushed from one category into the other as a result of bonuses - which really determines the significance of your article - is relatively small, I fancy.

[Mount Everest]

well i know that when absolute changed its rake for a point from 25 cents to 50 cents. i found out i needed to become a better player.

before they changed the rake requirement, i could three table the bonus away real quick and my bankroll grew daily.

those days are over. in fact, right now on absolute there are only 2 tables going at 50 cent/$1 and neither are full and no where near the $10 threshold to get the 50 cent rake.

other sites seem to be toughening up their bonus requirements and reducing their reload bonues too.

my low limit chasing days are not so golden any more. in fact, i gave up playing limit holdem completely because earning a 1bb/hr is a waste of time without the bonus. it is also hard to get to 1bb/hr even with all the rocks like me playing and all the info available to make players better. before i quit limit the table VPIP was getting lower and lower. often the blinds fighting it out.

so now i play omaha h/l and chasing is a little better and the games are not rock gardens.

i also started playing low limity no limit. been doing my own ferguson quest at UB where you can actually whore on the 2 cent tables. i started with a buck awhile ago and i am up to about $30.

interestingly at some sites to get a point in no limit the pot has to be $20 which at even the $25 max buyin doesnt happen very often. at poker stars you get a point at the fixed $1 tables when the pot is $10 but it has to be $20 for no limit.

so no limit seems to be a hard way to bonus whore.

[ResumeMan]

[mchilger]

Bonus chasing has a very important purpose and role for many poker players. When playing poker, there are two competing forces - the desire to make the most money possible and the need to improve your game so that you can make more money. Which of these forces "wins out" is dependant on many, many things and will be different for each player.

Take a poker comparison such as playing multiple tables. Obviously, good poker players can make a lot more money playing two tables than they can playing one table. However, a potential downfall of this or "pitfall" is that if you always play two tables your game could become very mechanic which will hinder the development of your game. Over time, this will hinder your ability to move up limits which could hinder your ability to make more money in the long-term.

I think Pie's article mentions similar pitfalls to some players who chase bonuses. They key word here is some players, not all. Another comparison. Some players never tilt. These players don't need to worry about some of the triggers of tilt. But most players do tilt so they should be aware of those things that might put them on tilt.

I think it is also important to realize that although a particular cause might not be the major problem, it is important to recognize that cause until you can correct the major problem. For example, setting stop-limits in a session doesn’t make much sense if you have perfect emotional control and can continue to play great poker. However, most players don’t have this control and are prone to tilt when things are going bad during a session. The ideal solution is to learn better emotional control so that you don’t tilt – but in the meantime, setting stop-limits is a good solution. If you recognize a weakness in your game, it makes sense to make a short-term fix while you are working on the long one.

I haven’t reread Pie’s article, but I think the key word is potential. All of the things Pie mentions are potential pitfalls for some players. Maybe none of them apply to you, or maybe just one or two. If you recognize some of the pitfalls that you might have then it can help you make corrective action.

In terms of bonus chasing itself, I do think some players get so focused on bonuses that they start to lose sight of other goals when playing poker, including developing your game. I play so seldom nowadays on the Internet that when I do play I almost always play just one table. I basically have two goals – work on my game and have fun. Making the most money is not part of that goal so I don’t play multiple tables nor do I find a specific bonus to chase.

However, if there is a bonus at the site I want to play at then I have a double-bonus! I like to play at Absolute so I am lucky in that I can chase bonuses while playing in the exact game I want to play at. However, if you don’t like the software at Absolute, don’t do well in the games there, and just overall don’t enjoy playing at Absolute, chasing a bonus there is probably more damaging than good. Sometimes bonus chasers put them in situations which is not ideal which I think is the main point of Pie’s article.

Matthew