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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: optimal SB play vs optimal BTN open |
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How wide can we 3bet in the SB vs BTN steal? Lets assume that BTN opens with a perfect range. (55-70%?) Against this type of a player we don´t want to fold too much. We would like to coldcall a lot like suited connectors and even some suited one gappers and more. But this would be giving away too much information and so we decide to only play 3bet or fold.
Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 5 players) Hero is SB  
2 folds, BTN raises, Hero ? |
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Willem
2K Club
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2646
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Easy 3bet with 78s for me. In general, you can 3bet half the range the button is opening, which is 27.5% - 35% in your case.
Cold calling is bad as you give the BB 1:5 odd to call. If he does, which he should with a wide range, you'll have the worst absolute AND relative position in the flop, making any hand hard to play. 3betting is way better as you create dead money and gain the initiative. |
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mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yep it's generally a 3 bet for me as well against this opponent type although I doubt I'd be 3 betting it as much as Willem as I know he's laggier than me. It's especially useful popping this against TAGS to add balance and deception to your range. Your implied odds and fold equity against an opponent who is not very showdown bound will also be good with this kind of hand.
And yes 3 betting is the way to go with it unless the BB is an absolute nit who folds his big blind each orbit regardless of who entered the pot. |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Willem wrote: | Easy 3bet with 78s for me. In general, you can 3bet half the range the button is opening, which is 27.5% - 35% in your case.
Cold calling is bad as you give the BB 1:5 odd to call. If he does, which he should with a wide range, you'll have the worst absolute AND relative position in the flop, making any hand hard to play. 3betting is way better as you create dead money and gain the initiative. |
I thought coldcalling was what you wanted to do with a suited connector since you often get good equity in a multiway pot. I wonder how much of that is negated (is that even a word?) by us having a bad relative position. Thank you for expressing your thoughts clearly on this. 3betting everything really makes sense in light of your remark.
Half his range doesn´t include us using 87s though. But I guess you´re not playing just pokerstove´s definition on 27-35% right? Adding suited connectors even if it doesnt make up half his range makes sense if we add the possiblity of sometimes ending up 3-handed. (like in the hand below)
Here´s a hand I played against a TAG with an attempt to steal of 51%. Am I pushing it with this one?
Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 5 players) Hero is SB  
2 folds, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, BTN calls |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Willem
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2646
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I 3bet a little more than 35%, including 65s. I pretty much use the stove range, skewed slightly towards suited connectors. (Only slightly)
You should tighten up though, if BB is regularly calling two bets. |
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Skrotnisse
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you!
By 35% I´m guessing you mean against a BTN steal of atleast 50%. |
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