Online struggles vs live success

[Wicker_Man33]

I am a struggling low-limit (NL) online player. I have been playing for about 3 years now, and I have had great success in live 1-2 and 2-5 NL HE Games. However, online it is a different story. I am a consistent loser online. I mostly play .25-.50 and .50-1.00 NL online. I just seem to be a consistent loser at it.

My first thought process for the reasons for this is the following: Could it be possible that those low online limits are just too sporadic to be beatable? I mean, there are a lot of fish at these tables, but it seems like solid play does not work. In order to win big, you have to gamble, and that as we all know does not always pan out the way you want it to.

Am I wasting my time playing at this low of a limit online, or are these games beatable?

Is there something that I should be doing differently to gain an edge in these games? I consider myself a tight-aggressive player. Should I play more passively and limp more or should I continue to be aggressive and force people to make tough decisions?

It is more of a knock on my ego to not be able to beat these games than on my bankroll. However, I am afraid to move up to higher levels because I cannot consistently beat the lowest level online.

I am just frustrated, and I am open to any advice that anyone can give me. I want to be a successful internet player, and I am frustrated at my misfortune.

Thanks so much in advance!

[poker_Elmo]

Hey Wicker, welcome to the forums.

First, I am assuming you don't have tilt issues online that are not present live. If you do, I would recommending reading and studying The Poker Mindset.

From someone who started online, I was shocked at how incredibly soft and weak live players were. I would guess that your struggles are because the level of competition online is much tougher than live. Intuitively, this should make sense, as those who play live could be playing much more for recreation. Those who play online are there to presumably attempt to beat the online game. I have played $1/$2 NL and $2/$5 NL live and have never found a game tougher than the weakest $0.50/$1.00 games that can be found.

The good news - if you can figure out how to beat these online games, your experiences live should be even more profitable than they are now. There are several people here who have beat $0.25 bb - $2 bb NL cash games (and higher) for a nice hourly rate over a long period of time.

[Piemaster]

I agree with Elmo, online games are much tougher. There are a lot of weak players in the low-limit games online, but your edge over the collective field may not be enough to overcome the money you lose to the rake and the better players. Also, some players who apearpoor at first gance may actually be reasonable players who just have a loose style.

Any conclusion that you need to 'gamble more' to beat online games is a fallacy. You just need to play the odds like you do in live games.

[taz115]

The games in online poker typically play more aggressively... so you may feel that you have to gamble more than in live, where players hold onto their chips a bit more tightly. But your not really gambling more... the average players range for a check/raise all-in might be wider online than live and if your not adjusting your calling, raising, pushing ranges appropriately you may be playing too tight online.

You also mentioned playing more passively... you can play specualtive hands like small pp's and suited connectors cheaply compared to the implied odds in NL. This should apply to both online and live.

[taz115]

Post some hands in our NL Hand history forums. Pay attention to the differences in the games online and live and see if you are playing different types of opponents/scenarios the exact same way.

[Wicker_Man33]

Hey guys, first I'd like to say thanks for such quick responses!

That is reassuring to me to hear from some accomplished online players that online games are more aggressive and sometimes more difficult.

In reference to what Elmo wrote, I actually read The Poker Mindset (great book) about a month ago and it has helped me tremendously. I think that a lot of my problems in the past in online games were due to Tilt, but not so much anymore. I am and will continue to study this great book. Also, that is really good news that the toughest 2-5 game you have ever played is not harder than some of the weakest .50-1 online games!

As far as what Ian wrote, I guess I really didn't mean to say that I have come to the conclusion that I need to gamble more online to win. I think that comment came from the fact that I will get beat by people who gamble more, and then I will watch them do that and turn around and sometimes play that way myself.

A lot of this problem of mine I think stems from the fact that online, I do not get the respect that I get in a live game (ie, raise with AK, AQ, miss the flop, make a continuation bet, and people fold). It just seems like everytime I make a continuation bet on a "safe" board, I will get called down or raised. Psychologically, I think that has taken its tole on me, and now I am afraid to make continuation bets, and I therefore present a weak table image.

Taz, you mentioned playing different scenarios/opponents the same online and in live games. That is something for me to think about. I often find myself trying to be too aggressive with small pp's online, where as in a live game I will generally just limp with them.

Thanks a lot for the replies, and anymore advice would be greatly appreciated!

[taz115]

Players are much more apt to play tighter post flop in live games... unless your in vegas late at night. Continuation bets will be more successful more often, players will bluff you less.

the majority of players have a tougher time making big plays when they actually have to push those chips into the pot rather than clicking a button and not having to look at your opponent. In live games you can tell who is who easier as well by how someone acts, looks ect where as online it takes a little while longer to get a book on someone.

ITH is great resource... I was totally green when I showed up here and getting involved in looking at your hands and the hands of others will help you understand why you make certain decisions in some cases and not in others.

Pop into IRC sometime and say hello to some the regulars there. Hope to see you around a bunch.

taz115