ITH League Participation

[ciaran]

League turnout has been slowly falling since we started at the beginning of February, and we'd like to find out why, and if there's anything we can do to help improve it.

Things I know could be issues (feel free to chime on any of these or others):

Timing - A number of folks have mentioned that the 1pm Sun start time is not ideal. To cater to US folks with weekend family commitments, we're going to run a 10pm Thursday league in April. If the 1pm Sunday time isn't ideal for weekenders/Euros, let me know and I'll change it for April (I was planning on pushing it to 2pm in any event).

Game Selection - We started with the idea that a mix of games would be interesing, though originally it was only going to be one oddball a month. I got the impression people were interested in more than that, but perhaps that was wrong. There will only be one (or maybe none) non-NLHE event in April (in each league).

Prizes/Buy-in - I'm hoping this isn't a real issue, but I could understand if this year's league was a letdown from last year's prize-wise. I've tried to keep buy-ins reasonably low, but we could address that if people think it's an issue. I'm also going to start a thread for people to exchange $ on other sites for $ at Stars so that they can play league games if they're unable to get money on Stars easily.

League "accessibility" - I'm slightly concerned that it's mostly forum regulars that know about/feel comfortable participating. While we do run the leagues primarily for our regulars, we'd like everyone to feel free to play, and I think everyone would enjoy beating a decent sized field more than winning what currently amounts to a 2-3 table MTT. To that end, we're considering dropping the password requirement, but leaving the buy-in requirement, and encouraging people to join up. Prizes would still be restricted to forum members, but just signing up would be sufficient (as it is now, functionally, and we have gotten a few new members on board so far this season).

[SANDSSTORM]

I'd like to know feedback here as well -
We've been trying to set up more things to incorporate the community and offer added prizes and generally make these events worthwhile - especially the league.

In order to be able to continue Leagues like this and other promos, we have to able to prove activity to the sites we approach. As Ciaran mentions, the participation has been low and we'd like to know what kinds of things will help it improve. Otherwise, sites like Stars are not willing to offer added prizes - like the monthly Million seat.

I'm eager to see replies here.
Thanks,
Albert

[rocketplayer]

1. I think the U.S. position on poker has taken the fun away for many including
those who still play here.

2. Only points are being rewarded for final table so if you don't do well in first
event you feel you can't win the current month and then the incentive goes
way down to play the rest of the month. This plus the fact that some real
good talent is in these event may make some feel it is EV- to play and they'd
be better off investing that money in a Stars MTT where they feel half the field
might be donks.

3. Sundays at 1PM are tough if you plan on doing anything with the family and
as the spring arrives it becomes even tougher a time to be in front of a
computer for 2+ hours. I understand that making it much later really is being
unfair to our friends across the pond though.

Ok that's my 2 cents. Having said all the above I have been trying to fit in the event by scheduling around Little League practice and my current 16 hour work days until April 17th.

[ebo8b]

For me it was mostly an issue of timing. I usually don't play poker during the middle of the afternoon on a weekend, but last year I was available to play. I'm excited that there's a weeknight league, and I'll definitely participate.

Also, IMO last year's prize structure contributed to the number of active participants. I definitely played many more events because of the prize structure.

[ciaran]

[ciaran]

[Maiden]

From a UK perspective, the start time is perfect, and the mixed games make it interesting. I enjoyed the first 3 games, but RL kept me out of the last 2 including last Sunday bring mothers day in the UK.

[rocketplayer]

[DTheater]

Im generally not playing as much poker now and Sundays are the worst day of the week for me.

thats my reasons for not participating much this year.

[ebo8b]

[rocketplayer]

[rezster]

[Patch]

Start time -- I see a number of issues here. I've already complained about it jumping around a bit. I missed one of the events because the one the prior week started at 2pm and I assumed the current week would start then also. I tuned in 45 minutes too late. Pick a time and don't change it during the month. Wait until the next month if it needs to be changed. Or at least VERY prominently announce the change.

1pm isn't a big issue for me, but I can see where it might be for some people. That's 10am on the left coast -- prime church-going hours for those who are so inclined.

As others have mentioned, anyone in the US wishing to use their Sunday for anything other than poker are likely to miss this tournament. As I recall, last year the invitation-only tournament for the more wordy among us was on Sunday and often had a rather low turnout. I'd always assumed the lower turnout was due to the invitation-only status, but it's possible it was as much to do with the day and time.

I regularly play in some blogger tournaments that are held on Sunday nights, typically 9pm ET. They tend to get a very good turnout. No idea if that's due to the extensive promotion they receive on many poker blogs or if it's due to the time being more convenient (at least for those in the US).

Points -- I was one who complained about the points formula last year, even though I probably benefited from it as much as anyone. It should be more heavily weighted toward those who finish toward the top of the pack, like it is this year. Last year's linear formula rewarded endurance more than performance.

That said, I do think SOME points should be awarded to everyone who finishes in at least the top half of the field, if not to all who participate. It's very discouraging to spend an hour or two playing your best poker only to bubble the final table and not only miss the money, but get zero points as well. As it stands right now, almost half the names on the overall leader board have goose eggs after their names. This includes a bunch of people I know to be very talented NLHE tournament players.

If you use the current formula and simply don't cut it off at the final table I think it would work fine. The formula is very heavily weighted towarrd the top finishers so there's little chance of someone finishing tenth in every event and still ending up near the top of the overall leader board.

Game selection -- I've said my piece on this in other threads, but I'll repeat myself anyway. Personally, I think limit formats suck in tournament play, regardless of the game being played. Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, Stud, whatever. If it's a tournament, it shouldn't be limit. No-limt and pot-limit are the only formats that properly fit into normal tournament structures.

Luck is too big a factor in razz and stud to make them good tournament games.

That said, the format or game has not kept me from playing. I doubt it's stopped any of the other regulars either, though it may have kept some newbies away.

Promotion -- My blog doesn't have all that many readers, but I'm friendly with a number of other bloggers who do get a LOT of regular readers. If you decide to have an open event I'd be happy to help promote it and try to get others to do so as well.

[bpgui]

[ciaran]