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Harlequin99
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 143
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Interesting and fun way to make sure you play your A-game |
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Recently I watched a couple of videos of a high stakes player, Chris Rhodes, commentating on his play in a $100/$200 limit holdem game.
Next time I played my usual $2/$4 game I found myself commentating on my own play - rationalising and justifying my plays. I pretended I was talking to an audience and I found myself playing far better than I usually do - laying down hands I know I should get rid of but often have trouble dropping, not playing too loosely or too aggressively as I have a habit of. I really tried hard to put opponents on hands in order to justify what I was doing to my audience. It sounds quite silly but I am really happy with the results. I do it every time I play now.
I really recommend trying it! |
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Scully
Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 634 Location: Manchester, UK
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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That sounds like a great idea - as long as you're in the room alone.
In all seriousness though I think that doing this will make you concentrate more throughout all hands and as a consequence improve your observations. Oh, and hopefully stop those stupid crying calls.
I think I'll give this a try next time I'm playing - as long as the girlfriend is out of the house. She might think I'm wierd otherwise....... |
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gp00053
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 70 Location: online
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Interesting and fun way to make sure you play your A-gam |
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| Harlequin99 wrote: | I found myself commentating on my own play - rationalising and justifying my plays. It sounds quite silly but I am really happy with the results. I do it every time I play now.
I really recommend trying it! |
One time I was talking to a very well known pro and I said "give me a tip on how to improve my play in one sentence" He said . . . " take the time to rationalize and justify every play you make". . .sound familiar
I believe that's the difference between a pro and someone who's not.
If you had watched High Stakes Poker the season before, you would have seen Phil Hellmuth lose over $100,000. If you watched Poker After Dark, he lost the first 3 seasons he played there. He got the tapes of every show watched them and saw what all the other players were doing, then he watched his own performance and ajusted it accordingly. The next season of High Stakes poker he won all his money back and I believe was a $50,000 winner. On Poker after dark he won two tourneys in a row there.
Chris Ferguson says when you are going bad, take a break and evaluate your play then go back at it. . .Doyle Brunson said why wait til you're going bad; evaluate your play and the players you're playing against and a lot of times you can avoid going bad in the 1st place. |
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blah730235
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 163
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| That seems like a great idea, it forces you in a way to think about your plays even when your in a routine such as: of oh I got AJo raise 4x BB. Instead it's: I got AJo on the button, with 3 limpers in front, I want to take as few players to the flop with me as I can, so knowing that 2 of the limpers and the BB fold easy I will raise 4x BB |
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Taardvark 1K Club
Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 1060 Location: Fremont, CA
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I actually picked up this tip from an interesting source: my wife.
She doesn't play very much and she's mostly an ABC type of player but she understands all the general concepts pretty well.
One evening she really wanted to play for some reason so I set her up to play at a NL10 table.
My wife always processes things out loud and she was doing this the entire time she played (around a half an hour or so). It got me to thinking.
I've always felt I'm pretty good at diagnosing hands, but always end up making silly mistakes that I shouldn't. So the next time I played I started processing the hand (in my head and not out loud like my wife. I'd never hear the end of it if I did ).
I've been doing it ever since, probably 4 months or so, and the results for me have been pretty dramatic. |
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Scully
Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 634 Location: Manchester, UK
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I guess that most of us on here have a pretty good fundamental understanding of the game, but due to either multi-tabling (or laziness - definitely laziness on my part) play on auto pilot and don't think things through as thoroughly as we could.
In my opinion this is probably simply a habit. I believe that, and I'm as guity of this as anyone, if most of the lower limit players on ITH spent a few weeks making a conscious effort to rationalise every hand we played this would then become habit, and we'd all better players for it.
Unfortunately no-one can teach anyone that!! |
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jfletcher Will work for food
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 3152
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| I agree wholeheartedly. I wrote in another thread that one of the tips I wrote myself on my cheat sheet was to "explain decisions to myself." That's sort of the same thing. Instead of thinking of myself as a commentator, I pretend I'm sitting next to a friend who is learning how to play, and I'm explaining things to him. It really does help you play your best. |
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jeffnc Mason's Favorite
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 7222 Location: NC, USA
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Basically, this is a technique for being objective, which is a good idea. Another way to do it would be to pretend someone else posted the hand example on the forum, and decide how you would tell the person to play it. |
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jeffnc Mason's Favorite
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 7222 Location: NC, USA
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Interesting and fun way to make sure you play your A-gam |
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| gp00053 wrote: | One time I was talking to a very well known pro and I said "give me a tip on how to improve my play in one sentence" He said . . . " take the time to rationalize and justify every play you make". . .sound familiar
I believe that's the difference between a pro and someone who's not. |
Well, that and the skill to rationalize and justify correctly to begin with
In Poker Mindset, they make the point that it won't be the most important book you own, but the second most important. There really isn't any substitute for correct strategy to begin with. |
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gp00053
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 70 Location: online
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Interesting and fun way to make sure you play your A-gam |
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| jeffnc wrote: |
Well, that and the skill to rationalize and justify correctly to begin with
In Poker Mindset, they make the point that it won't be the most important book you own, but the second most important. There really isn't any substitute for correct strategy to begin with. |
I guess it depends on your definition of rationalize and justify There is someone on this forum that uses this line. It's one of the best I ever heard " why not play 10 4 off? I have a chance to make two pairs. But you're right, no substitute for correct strategy to begin with and the mindset to follow it consistently. |
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bohemian
Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 652 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I use Camtasia Studio 5 to record the video of every significant hand together with my audio commentary of my thinking process for that hand at that time. I always review them later and they are simply invaluable. |
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Zenjo
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 46 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I keep meaning to do this. There are no end of times I make an instantaneous decision which I find hard to explain afterwards. It's not like you'd have to talk constantly or anything unless you want to say: "I am under the gun and have seven three offsuit. I have a poor hand in a poor position, so I decide to fold." That might drive you crazy before long. |
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bohemian
Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 652 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Zenjo wrote: | | I keep meaning to do this. There are no end of times I make an instantaneous decision which I find hard to explain afterwards. It's not like you'd have to talk constantly or anything unless you want to say: "I am under the gun and have seven three offsuit. I have a poor hand in a poor position, so I decide to fold." That might drive you crazy before long. |
Exactly. You can merely state your reason for the decision that you make. You'll be surprised how quickly that forces you to make better quality decisions. It's also very interesting to watch/listen to replays. I normally pause the recorder and start it only for key hands, so in the end I have only minutes, rather than hours, of review. |
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toronexti 53o
Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 4115
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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It's great if you can watch and commentate on your own play, but can you watch and comentate on your opponents play?
| Quote: | | Exactly. You can merely state your reason for the decision that you make. You'll be surprised how quickly that forces you to make better quality decisions. It's also very interesting to watch/listen to replays. I normally pause the recorder and start it only for key hands, so in the end I have only minutes, rather than hours, of review. |
Here you're only examining if you're playing correctly, but what you're missing out on by not watching the rest of the few hours (or at least paying attention while you're playing) is rationalizing the other players thought process and understanding what they are thinking.
Rarely will someone go "I want to lose $$ on this hand and I don't care if I'm playing bad" most people while they are playing try to use their reasoning and logic while playing - if you understand what they are thinking when they make a bet you can out-think them and therefore outplay them. |
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AlamedaMike 2K Club
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 2042 Location: Alameda, CA
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just happened upon this thread - I was going to post a silly strategic goal - avoid cold calls and avoid folding the best hand for one bet on the river.
So to avoid cold calls I "talk" to myself before I decide to fold or raise. To avoid folding the best hand on the river I "talk" to myself before I call or actually fold.
I read in book a long time ago far far away where the author said that he would stake a player even a losing player if the player would explain why he played the hand the way that he did - if the author agreed with the why he played the hand then he would keep staking him - otherwise not.
The point being correct play (according to the author that is - his money his rules).
If you pretend that you need to explain your play to the pro looking over your shoulder it might help.
What would BarryT think of this play if he could see it? or have your left brain (logic) watch your right brain (emotion).
------ edit ------
There is a difference between knowing what to do and then doing it. See barryT's article I where a player almost raised as an example. This thread is about techniques to help you do what you think to be correct - e.g. play you A game and find a table where your A game is better than the other players - or at least some of them.
If I am not on tilt, and I try hard to stay off, I think that I am making the best decision. My goal is to compare my decision against the decision of a better player in the same spot - a whole different topic. |
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