How do I know when not to cbet?

[kingme620]

Esp. against one opponent I've been cbetting the flop like 90% of the time.

In the most general situation against a decent 25nl opponent, is this wrong?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)
BB ($14)
UTG ($23.20)
UTG+1 ($16.30)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($24.40)
MP3 ($50.90)
Hero ($21.45)
Button ($17.30)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.95, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.70.

Flop: ($2.25) , , (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $1.4, MP3 raises to $2.8, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $5.05

[emmapeel]

I think it is good to start off with a rough % of how often you will c/bet and then work it out from there. 80% is a good figure but 90% is fine. Some players check the flop more often like Negraneau but some like Gus Hansen will mostly bet it.

I think the c/bet in the hand is fine. One circumstance where you might want to check the flop is if you are against an aggressive player and you have a strong draw. Here it can be better just to take the free card rather than get check-raised off the draw.

In the above hand Hero doesn't have a strong draw so betting should be ok. Getting re-raised here is nothing to think about; it's an easy fold. Checking and taking a free card isn't such a big deal. If we hit our pair on the turn we may still be behind.

EP

[Taardvark]

Key considerations for me are the texture of the board, the kinds of hands the table thinks I generally play, the kinds of hands that villians usually are playing, the number of players in the pot, and my current image as best as I can tell.

That said, more often than not if I led preflop I am going to lead again on the flop.

I think this flop is a perfect one to continue on. If you have consistently continued with about 3/5 the size of the pot then your bet size is good. That kind of consistency is important whether you are leading out with air, with medium strength, or with a monster like a set.

Also, I hope you took notes on this villian because I think you got outplayed on this hand and this is a player to watch out for if you encounter them again. I'd bet its more than likely because you've led out so often that villian is using his stack size to slow you down some.

[CameronMilelr]

I like to bet about 70% of the time when my opponent checks to me, I will bet any handdraws all the way up to sets betting 80% of the pot. Good players will spot if you bet too often and start re-raising you.

[blah730235]

I'm actually pretty interested in this question as I know not cbetting enough makes for a fit-or-fold player(very easily readiable because they only cbet when they hit the flop) & cbetting 100% of the time makes for easy explotation because your range does not change at all from preflop to flop so a smart villan knows you have air more often than not and will bluff-raise you depending on your PFR %.

I think another good question to ask is when to cbet the turn with air. I know I was once pretty exploitable because I would cbet almost 100% of the time on the flop and then play fit-or-fold on the turn.

[Fumseck]

If you want to raise preflop you should go for 4x +1x limpers. In this case you would have raised to 1.25 preflop.

1.4 in 2.25 reeks weakness. You should cbet for about 3/4 to full pot ag 1 opponent.

For your question, I cbet about 90-95% of the time against 1 opponent.

QJo is a junk hand (but it looks pretty), fold it. At this limit, you can play extremely tight and you will still get action.

[Fumseck]

blah,

Nowadays a lot of people know about the concept of c-betting, so you often have to 2 barrel in order to make them fold. Obvisously, you need to be able to read the board in order to do this effectively. You also have to make sure your opponent is not a CS, in which case your best play will be to value bet thin against him.

Some aggro players will raise your c-bet on air, you have to be able to spot these players and reraise them also on air...

[chrisjp]

[shallam]

Preflop.

I found your PFR to be a bit puzzling. It is certainly counterintuitive as your hand is not particularly strong. Ordinarily this is the type of hand where you'd like to see a cheap flop and either flop something or possibly steal the pot when it's checked to you. The presence of just one limper dramatically reduces the value of a PFR with a weak/margin hand, like the one you have.

Perhaps you noticed that your opps were playing weak tight and give the PFR players too much respect.


The flop.
Well this is certainly a tricky spot. Here are some very general guidelines for making a CB:

---General Guidelines for making a CB---

1. Strength of your hand.

If you flop a good hand or draw you should be more inclined to bet.

2. Number of opps.

if you have two or fewers opps you should be more inclined to bet.


3. Board texture.
If the flop seems dry and unlikely to have hit your opps you should usually bet. One way to evaluate this is to consider the number of cards in the strike zone between A-9, wether or not the board is flushed (two or more cards of the same suit), wether or not the flop is connected.

---

Lets evaluate these guidelines for this particular hand.

1. You have nothing. Your bet would be a stone cold bluff.

Strongly unfavorable.


2. You have two opps.

Slightly favorable.

3. Pretty dry board. Only one card 9 or higher, none connected and two spades.

Sligthly favorable.


All things considered it looks like a very marginal/close decision (some help I am you were asking for advice not a declaration that it's a difficult decision!). One compromise option is to use a probe style CB of about 1/3 pot. This gives your opps the excuse to fold if they are not interested in the pot, but also allows you get off cheaply with your BS hand should an opp actually have something. If you get raised you will simply fold on the spot.


And of course after the hand you should be reflecting on your PF play. You might want to rethink your PFR.

[chrisjp]

The question for me is not so much how good a hand I have.

It's:

Texture of the flop
How do my opponent's play
How does my hand relate to the flop

If it's a low flop and I have nothing like here well then the reason to bet is to win with the worst hand. If I have AK and the flop is Axx rainbow then I can check to let hm catch up and to deceive him as to the strength of my hand. He's very unlikely to overtake me if I give him a free card.

I need to bet some of the time with nothing and check some of the time with a nice hand. Got to keep them guessing.

And the size of my bet should have nothing to do with my hand. It should be a function of the texture of the flop. The drier the flop the smaller my bet. The more dangerous the flop then the bigger the bet. Has nothing to do with my hand. Now whether I bet or not...that has to do with my hand, but the amount of the bet shouldn't. Chris Ferguson has an excellent discussion of this in the FTP book. Stack size is a big factor too of course, but i'm assuming here large stacks.

Now if you bet 1/3 of the pot here to try to win it cheaply because you have a bluff...well a good player will run right over you. They will see the bet and start licking their chops. "Wow" they will think, "I just won this pot." And they will put in a nice c/r and take it down.

This is such an intriguing subject and an area where I will never feel like I know it all. Cause I never will.

Chris

[shallam]

[shallam]