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RiverCascade
53o
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 3492
Location: Lovin' Life~
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 Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: Greetings~ and Forum Feedback Thread |
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Hi, ITH Members,
I am pleased and most honored to announce that I will be serving this community as moderator for the Poker Site Review and Discussion Forum.
I guess instead of dumping all my poker site issues on chillin', I now have to take responsibility and deal with them myself.  Bummer... I'll miss that. 
I hope to get started in earnest, over the next few days. Although management, as well as myself, like the general way this forum has been developed as far as new threads having to be initiated by the moderator, everything other than that is now a clean slate.
Please... I can't do this without you-- and this forum (ITH, in general) exists to serve you, our members. I need your help with new ideas, suggestions, and anything else that will make this forum, specifically, the most helpful, up-to-date poker site review forum, on the web.
Besides threads for discussing sites specifically, I also want to get a thread going for sites to play on, at your own risk... a heads up, warning, so-to-speak. What else do you see a need for, in this area?
I will also be creating a faq list for here, in the near future.
So, I ask you, again, to please be considering and thinking about anything you'd like to see take shape here, and do not hesitate to pm me or post right here in this thread.
Regards,
Last edited by RiverCascade on Sat May 27, 2006 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bpgui
2K Club
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 2380
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats! I'm sure you'll do a fine job.
I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but am just thinking out loud (actually in type)...
I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of a house cleaning in the review threads. A lot of the sites have gone through changes/upgrades (or downgrades) which might make some of the prior comments less relevant. Also, some of the threads haven't been replied to this year and most have only been replied to a few times. I think a clean slate would encourage a lot of ITHers to come in and write reviews which would in turn lead to more up to date comments/opinions and possibly be more helpful. Just a thought.
This next idea I really like, but I am not sure if it is feasible:
I would like to see several polls for each site each focusing on a specific area. That way we could rate sites based on traffic, ease of competition, customer service, software, bonuses, speed of cashout, or any other criteria. I think this would be much more helpful than a single 1-10 scale of whether you like the site or not. |
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RiverCascade
53o
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 3492
Location: Lovin' Life~
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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bp:
Plan A... love it. Radical. I could de-sticky the old ones and start new ones. Would never have thought have that.
Plan B... love it, too. Again, would never have thought of it. Although, it is trickier. Not sure how I would pull this off. I'd bet you can only have one poll per thread. Maybe I won't have polls in the basic thread for each site, but have other threads for each category of what makes a site good, then list the sites in the poll. I think you can only have a very few selections for the polls, so might need a couple of polls for each category, and group them together by size of site.
More specifically... say one thread was customer support, and you could only have 8 selections in the poll, so that thread could be called "Customer Support-Large," listing the top 8 largest sites. Then, Customer Support-Mid, next 8 sites, etc. Go through the same scenario for traffic, and any other category we're interested in.
What do you think? Do you have a better idea? I will need your help on this for coming up with all the categories. I'll be in touch.
Rather exciting. I wouldn't have thought of these things. Did I say that already? 
Thank you!
What else.... anybody? |
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bpgui
2K Club
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 2380
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| RiverCascade wrote: | Plan B... love it, too. Again, would never have thought of it. Although, it is trickier. Not sure how I would pull this off. I'd bet you can only have one poll per thread. Maybe I won't have polls in the basic thread for each site, but have other threads for each category of what makes a site good, then list the sites in the poll. I think you can only have a very few selections for the polls, so might need a couple of polls for each category, and group them together by size of site.
More specifically... say one thread was customer support, and you could only have 8 selections in the poll, so that thread could be called "Customer Support-Large," listing the top 8 largest sites. Then, Customer Support-Mid, next 8 sites, etc. Go through the same scenario for traffic, and any other category we're interested in. |
Thank you.
I thought that there would be a limit of one poll per thread, but I might have come up with a solution (although not a perfect solution).
There might be a problem with "Customer Support-Large" type polls. For example, in that poll you'd have PokerStars, Party, Pokerroom (and skins), etc. You can only vote for one. I think Stars would win a vast majority of the vote, and it might give a false impression that some of the other sites have poor service. I think there really needs to be a way to rate each specific site.
Possible Solution:
We could have the same poll that is in use now for an overall rating of the site (I'm not convinced that that is necessary), but also include a "suggested rating format" in the OP of the new threads to specifically rate the different categories. For example:
Ratings and Review of XXXXXXXXX Poker Site
Please rate each category on a scale of 1-10; 1 being the worst, 10 being the best. If you have no opinion for a specific category, leave blank.
Customer Service:
Ease of Competition:
Software:
Speed of Cashouts:
Game Availability:
Bonuses:
Rake Structure:
Any other category that we think should be included:
Additional Comments:
I think this would allow users to get a better idea of why a specific site has the rating it has. Different people value the different categories differently (that sentence sounds strange). Whatever category is valued the highest by a particular poster could greatly influence their overall rating.
Example:
Someone who places great emphasis on bonuses may give a site an overall rating of a 3 or 4, because the site has horrible bonuses, but would rate everything else an 8 or 9. That overall rating doesn't really apply to someone who doesn't care about bonuses, and might cause that person to pass over a site that they might have loved. The specific category ratings would help users to make their decisions based on what is most important to them.
Obviously we could not force posters to use such a format, but I think enough would use it to allow someone to quickly scroll through the thread and get a good idea of what the opinions are.
It might also be worthwhile to have two threads per site. One would be for the ratings and the other for more specific discussion of that site. Just a thought.
What do you think?
| RiverCascade wrote: | | I will need your help on this for coming up with all the categories. I'll be in touch. |
I'm glad to help. ITH has been very helpful to me, and I'd like to opportunity to try to give something back. Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions, criticisms, or just want to run an idea by me for another opinion. I'm kind of "hit and miss" on the weekends, but I am pretty much always available during the week.
Now if we could just get some other ITHers to make some suggestions... |
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bpgui
2K Club
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 2380
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| the_hawk wrote: | Well, I would start by finding a way of archiving anything that is more than about 6 months old. How about deciding on a cut-off date (whatever it is) and creating a separate thread for all reviews older than that. Clearly the old stuff should remain on ITH somewhere, but it is a bit silly if review threads begin with posts from 2003, since every single site must have changed almost beyond recognition since then.
I would also put out a data call to the ITH community for updated reviews on all sites people play. Perhaps give a suggested structure for reviews (or at least a list of criteria they wanted to address). I will be happy to supply reviews for about 20 sites I've played at over recent months, and as and when the Forum gets its facelift I'm ready to do so... |
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the_hawk
Chelsea FTW!
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 4346
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure polls (and numerical data) are as important as giving reviewers guidance on what you would like reviews to cover. Not least because poll data - at least, multi-variable poll data as would be needed here, isn't displayed very readily in this message board format. But in any case, I think it's peoples' qualitative impressions that really count in a good review thread.
(Also see my post in the thread in General BTW - which bpgui has reproduced above - GL and I'm happy to help all I can). |
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RiverCascade
53o
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 3492
Location: Lovin' Life~
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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bp, at first I was lost, then I thought I got, then I got lost, again.
First, I agree with your disagreeing about threads by category with polls that list poker sites by size. Good thinking.
Now, your solution. Do you mean not have polls regarding the category, but just have the reader copy the categories and insert their rating number by each category? How do we get an overall total, then? Or, do you think we don't need one? Regardless, I think I'll still have some kind of poll in the beginning, similar to what we have now, but maybe different wording choices. I haven't even looked at them, again, yet. Forget how they're currently worded. But that's separate and apart from the current discussion of categories. We need to find a way to get this feedback, and hopefully, a tally of some kind, though maybe not strictly necessary. The reader could just read whatever posts were in the thread and make their own conclusion, I guess.
Listing another category here, so I don't forget: Favorite/most profitable time of day, and/or days, to play.
| Quote: | | Whatever category is valued the highest by a particular poster could greatly influence their overall rating. |
Agree. No explanation necessary... We're really onto something with having the categories! Love it.
| Quote: | | Obviously we could not force posters to use such a format, but I think enough would use it to allow someone to quickly scroll through the thread and get a good idea of what the opinions are. |
They wouldn't have to. The players who are into this... play a lot, have opinions (oh, don't we all?), would rate them. That's the most important part. Yes, I think we wouldn't need a tally. It wouldn't be that important. Category ratings and posts about the site, in general, could intermingle and players can read, skim, whatever, as they choose.
This way, also, it keeps all the information and feedback about any one site in ONE thread, as it is now. I like that part. Much better idea, bp. You rock. It really helps to have someone to bounce this stuff off of and help me sort out my thinking, as well as give me new ideas.
I just got to your part about 2 threads. My knee-jerk reaction was nah... but, actually, since we will be using the alphabetical listing index, it could easily link to two threads, so the users will know there's one for each site, one for ratings only, and one for discussion... oooooo... fun fun.
| Quote: | | What do you think? |
~hug~
Last edited by RiverCascade on Fri May 19, 2006 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RiverCascade
53o
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 3492
Location: Lovin' Life~
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for copying hawk's message, bp. I hadn't seen it.
Hawk, I have no qualms about doing away with the old threads. How I'm going to handle it is by simply unstickying them. They'll still be in this forum, but just pass off and down. The new date, with current info, will start and be effective just as fast as I can get to it. I'm recovering from a root canal so this isn't going to happen overnight. No worries.
I'll have announcements/faqs about the formats, ratings, discussion threads, alphabetical list, etc.
Now, that you mention it, I don't think we need the polls either. Why bother? They're too general, and too influenced by too many factors, like bp said. As of now, I'm leaning toward the 2-thread per site idea, one ratings and one discussion... as well as my favorite new thread, "Sites to play at, at your own Peril" which will be an alphabetical listing of sites w/links to the thread that earned them their spot on this list, e.g., Fair Poker and PEP. |
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bpgui
2K Club
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 2380
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| RiverCascade wrote: | | bp, at first I was lost, then I thought I got, then I got lost, again. |
Sorry. I have a tendency to be a little unclear at times.
| RiverCascade wrote: | | Now, your solution. Do you mean not have polls regarding the category, but just have the reader copy the categories and insert their rating number by each category? |
I was thinking of the latter (having the reader copy the categories and insert their rating number). Keep in mind, the example I gave, was just that, an example. Feel free to edit it, slice it, dice it, chew it up, and spit it out. I'm sure we could find ways of improving it.
| Quote: | | How do we get an overall total, then? Or, do you think we don't need one? |
That was a problem I haven't come up with a solution for. I don't think it is absolutely necessary to have totals, but it would be nice.
I think the most important aspect of having a uniform rating format is the ability of the user to quickly scan numerous posts and be able to locate the ratings for the specific category (or categories) that he/she feels most important. The way the forum is set up now, you have to search through all the posts to see which posts (if any) mention the categories most important to you.
| Quote: | | as well as my favorite new thread, "Sites to play at, at your own Peril" which will be an alphabetical listing of sites w/links to the thread that earned them their spot on this list, e.g., Fair Poker and PEP. |
I love this idea.
| RiverCascade wrote: | | ~hug~ |
Awww Shucks 
| the_hawk" wrote: | | I think it's peoples' qualitative impressions that really count in a good review thread. |
I agree. This is basically what I was thinking of having the "additional comments" section in my above example. It would be a place where the reviewer could explain why he gave the ratings he did, what he wishes the site would do better, etc.
I do however think that the category rating (be it 1-10, letter grades, good/bad, or whatever) could also be very useful for a quick assessment. Many users will not want to have to sift through several pages of posts trying to find the all the posts that discuss that aspect(s) that is most important to then try to synthesize those posts into a intelligible opinion. If we can't determine a general opinion quickly, I'd bet we'd end up with many new posts saying something along the lines of "How is XXXX poker site about cashouts?" If we have to keep answering the same questions, because the answers are not easily accessible, it really defeats the purpose of the review forum. |
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PigPen
Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats RC! I'm looking forward to seeing new things happen in this category.
How about a quick list of what site's are part of what network? If I've had a good (or bad) experience with one site's service or support I may or may not want to join another site within the same network. It also may give a better idea of how strong a site is (or isn't). There doesn't seem to be a single listing for this, currently I need to look at every site listed here or find the info within the site itself. |
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RiverCascade
53o
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 3492
Location: Lovin' Life~
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ooooo, pigpen, *great* idea!! Question: Would you like to start drawing up a draft of one for me? You don't have to worry about formatting-- that's my favorite part. If you could just begin the list on notepad, I would be eternally in your debt. Interested?
I agree, it's something I always want to know, too, and confusing, and sometimes a pain, to figure out. This is a terrific idea. The only guideline I would request is that the network names be in alphabetical order, and the sites under each network name be in alphabetical order. The rest, I will handle. Please, please, pretty-please? |
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PigPen
Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| RiverCascade wrote: | | Please, please, pretty-please? |
With sugar on top? |
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RiverCascade
53o
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 3492
Location: Lovin' Life~
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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 Chu-got-it... and a cherry and er'yting! Are you coming to the convention? I'll buy you your own Sundae!! Now, in the words of our illustrious cybrarian, get busy!! |
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quintass
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually I've been very pleased with the way the sites been run in the past. Never noticed any major shortcomings. JMHO |
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PigPen
Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 856
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| RiverCascade wrote: | | Chu-got-it... and a cherry and er'yting! Are you coming to the convention? I'll buy you your own Sundae!! Now, in the words of our illustrious cybrarian, get busy!! |
A sundae!? Whoohoo!!  But it doesn't look like I'll be at the convention, not unless something pretty big happens pretty soon anyway.
I'll give the list a shot, see what I can come with. Will PM you the info. |
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