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Fold KK on this turn raise?

 
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Bullajami
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 8888
Location: Mrs. Bull's Doghouse

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Fold KK on this turn raise? Reply with quote

$2/4 FRLH

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with King of Spades, King of Diamonds.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Queen of Spades, 10 of Spades, 3 of Clubs (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 10 of Diamonds (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, Hero ???

Do you call here and the river?
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Damien



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Donk Betting the Flop

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do Bull, but that doesn't mean its right...
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Cript
Cheesehead


Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 5112
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do indeed call...Does his line not fit KQ or AQ?
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Misunderstud
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Here, stupid

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also might fit AT, JTs and 33. Plus you'd often get c/r'd on the flop by a big Q (and 33, of course).

I was discussing just this with nside in another thread. I don't think he liked the idea of folding much but every bloody time I call a turn c/r with just a pair it's another $8 down the drain, so I'm mighty tempted to just toss 'em.
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thew92



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 885
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your hand is just to strong to fold here. You will run into a lot of 10x hands here but I think you will also run into enough of Qx hands to make a profitable call down. I would probably fold to a very passive villain here
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the_hawk
Chelsea FTW!


Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 4449

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am torn here. C/c flop and c/r turn is of course the classic fishy move from someone who likes their hand ON THE FLOP. That brings a lot of Qx hands into the mix. But of course the pattern also fits Tx and stuff that now crushes you. I'm seriously looking at a fold right now, but would call in the heat of the moment, without doubt.
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mconstab



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Location: Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not played full ring for a while but this surely can't be a fold can it? Yes villain can have a T, but he can also have so many draws he's decided to play aggressively as well as the Q. The T is a great scare card for him to represent with such a wide range that calling down must be standard.
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Bullajami
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
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Location: Mrs. Bull's Doghouse

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_hawk wrote:
I am torn here. C/c flop and c/r turn is of course the classic fishy move from someone who likes their hand ON THE FLOP.


Maybe, but in my experience, a turn c/r at $2/4 FRLH means > one pair 95% of the time. I don't have a read on this player specifically. My observation is just that generally I don't see check-raises on the turn with a pair - unless its someone who likes to slow play their AA - in which case I am still doomed. Confused
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Cript
Cheesehead


Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 5112
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullajami wrote:
the_hawk wrote:
I am torn here. C/c flop and c/r turn is of course the classic fishy move from someone who likes their hand ON THE FLOP.


Maybe, but in my experience, a turn c/r at $2/4 FRLH means > one pair 95% of the time. Confused


Play more hands Smile
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Bullajami
Uber Squid


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 8888
Location: Mrs. Bull's Doghouse

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cript wrote:
Bullajami wrote:
the_hawk wrote:
I am torn here. C/c flop and c/r turn is of course the classic fishy move from someone who likes their hand ON THE FLOP.


Maybe, but in my experience, a turn c/r at $2/4 FRLH means > one pair 95% of the time. Confused


Play more hands Smile

I suspect i have a significant sample size. Very Happy
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Cript
Cheesehead


Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 5112
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullajami wrote:
Cript wrote:
Bullajami wrote:
the_hawk wrote:
I am torn here. C/c flop and c/r turn is of course the classic fishy move from someone who likes their hand ON THE FLOP.


Maybe, but in my experience, a turn c/r at $2/4 FRLH means > one pair 95% of the time. Confused


Play more hands Smile

I suspect i have a significant sample size. Very Happy


That's what she said.

Erm...what?

While you might be beat more than 50% of the time, I don't think it will be more than 80%
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Bullajami
Uber Squid


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 8888
Location: Mrs. Bull's Doghouse

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cript wrote:


While you might be beat more than 50% of the time, I don't think it will be more than 80%


Well maybe I should play where you play. Very Happy
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