Flopped FH, River Decision...

[mash_tun]

Bodog $100NL Full-Ring. First hand at the table. Effective stacks all > 100BBs

Hero is CO with and posts $1.

MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BTN folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop ($5):

SB checks, BB bets $4, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn ($17):

BB bets $15, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $55, BB calls $40.

River ($127):

BB bets $38, Hero???

[Soultwister]

I do not play full ring, but in a limped pot on that river I would be so happy to find the fold button, even with those pot odds.

I think your play here is fine. There are very few scarecards that could arrive, since any card could be BB's kicker, and you want to keep MP2 in. Turn play also seems standard after MP2 folds, since it's time to start building the pot.

[royze1]

What the Soultwister said, plus I would add a fold has a little extra value beyond saving the cost of calling the bet, in that your line could be taken for a bluff & get you action if you play a similar line later. I'd rather fold & possibly have them think I was bluffing than pay to show a hand that got sucked out on.

[Radford]

That's a tough one. The thing that strikes me is would the BB bet out on the flop with an ace? It's possible. But i would definetly expect a check. I just think you have to fold. Villian hasn't slowed down once in this hand, and he's certainly not scared of the two aces out there.

On a side note, i may be tempted to raise the flop. I'm not saying i don't like a flat call. Flat calling is good too. But if you raise and someone has an ace, you're going to win alot from them.

[Neilis]

I would raise this flop close to 100% of the time. Two aces on the board, two people showing interest in my pot and pretty much any card can give someone a bigger boat in this spot. I don't slowplay much, but slowplaying an under-full on a two ace flop is just asking to either not get value or get drawn out on.

Edit: In addition, it's awful hard for anyone to make a second best hand against us with the free card we give by slowplaying. A pair higher than us isn't going to stack off unless they hit the 2-outer (which beats us), there's no possible flush or straight draws that people can be holding, so the only way someone can improve and lose their stack to us is if they have exactly 55-22 and then get unlucky enough to suck out on themself.

Raise flop! Stack the dude who has an ace.. Even better, stack both dudes who have aces.

[Taardvark]

I think not raising the flop here has added some difficulty to the river decision. That's all hindsight of course and I think you played this like most people would by flat calling and I think it's a fine line to take. I know there is going to be disagreement here though but I have to say I usually raise in these situations. If this was a paired board with anything other than aces I'd go with the flat call line but the problem when there are two aces is the potential for counterfeiting your full house. Besides that, I'm willing to win a small pot on the chance villian does have the ace and make him pay to suck out, which doesn't happen here. Villian sets the price for us. With villian betting out he seems to like his hand. Firing on the flop could mean a lot of things, like some middle pair but the key play to me is that he leads the pot on the turn and then calls your 3/4 pot reraise. Unless he a complete donkey he has to have an ace here unless he made a play on the flop with 55 and now improved.

The second 5 on the river is an absolute cooler because if villian was playing an ace he just improved to a better hand than you and if he did improbably have 55 he now has the nuts with quads.

I think this is a clear fold and a hand that is probably going to keep you up a bit at night but I think you save yourself a substantial portion of your buy in by folding.

[emmapeel]

Still can't find anything we are beating on the river.

Villain may have bluffed the flop and then hit a big draw on the turn which he couldn't fold. Villain then tries a small bluff on the end forgetting the strength shown by Hero on the turn.

I think I'm folding this.

EP

[emmapeel]

I think re-raising the flop is an option too. It may give away the hand a bit though and a weak ace may give up, not often but it's possible. Re-raising will also worry villain into thinking there are 5 aces in the deck.

I think by calling the flop and re-raising the turn it disguises the hand a bit as Hero may have a lot of things now. I think either idea is good.

After posting pre-flop I sometimes make a pot sweetener mini-bet to try and win the button and discourage a big raise from the blinds.

EP

[cowboyinexile]

Hindsight is 20/20 and BB calling the turn raise is scary, but it was your first hand at the table. The way BB played this, if he doesn't have you beat then he's a maniac, but you have a strong, albeit counter fitted hand and are getting great odds to call.

Not knowing your opponent, I'm pretty tempted to make a crying call here. Your only win is against a strait bluff or an aggressive bb moving with a pp. Either way, when you showed strength on the turn they are likely to go away. The smallish river bet is begging for a call and if you happen to win the pot, you have a pretty good read on the aggressor. On internet message board paper, its a clear fold. In the hand, flopping a monster, getting the heart rate going as you count your money only to see the second worst possible river card you can see, and facing that small of a bet, its tough. I don't think its the clear cut fold most everyone who posted here seems to think.

I like what royze1said about using this hand to set a table image btw. I would be worried that showing that kind of weakness would later induce bluffs against me, but if you can play it similar when you are uuber strong (much like you did before the cooler card hit on the river), then it will be good for your session.

[poker_Elmo]

I would raise this flop - probably to 14 or so. Raising the flop with and underfull is often a good way to get all the chips in the pot by the river. That being said, I don't think it affects the size of the pot on the river here, since he led the turn and you raised.

On river, I think I call. Some people lead out when they flop trips, but many players just don't do that. He could be playing around with a pocket pair between 22-99, 76, or something else. You are getting a good enough price to make the call, IMO.

[Scully]

I'll start by saying that overall this situation totally sucks. The runner runner 5s are just horrible, but we all knew this.

As for villain's range, the fact he led the flop doesn't mean he has the A here. He may well have it but think of it from his perspective - you limped PF, so you don't have a big A. It's your first hand at the table so he should credit your play as being pretty solid until proved otherwise, so would you be limping with small Aces - maybe you would with small suited Aces, but the majority of your limping range here is small pairs and suited connectors.

So, from BB's perspective no one has raised so there's no big aces out there, and only maybe one or two players could feasibly be holding small aces.

Let's say he has K6 or pairs 77 - 99, as he'd likely raise TT+ PF. If you're pretty confident no-one has the A, your hand now looks pretty good and worth a lead. Even 55 looks OK on this board if you think no-one has the A. Once called he should slow down and fear the A (rather than 66), but another undercard to his possible pair falls, and maybe fills up his 5s, so he leads again. He can read your raise as a steal attempt, again if he's convinced you don't have the A due to the PF limp. And if he thinks this he has to lead the river as well, maybe a weakish lead as he doesn't know where he's at.

Now I agree that the above scenario is unlikely and that villain probably has A-rag here and has filled up (possibly on the flop or turn anyway, in which case we've done well not to go broke by the turn), however what we need to assess is whether the above scenario happens more than 30% of the time. If so it's a call, if not it's a fold.

Overall I agree that this is a fold, a frustrating and painful and tilt inducing fold, but perhaps it's not so black and white as might have previously been suggested. Or maybe I've been playing NL25 for too long