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superwomble
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Dover, Kent, UK
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 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: Duplicate Poker |
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Has anyone seen this site? Not looked into it very much but certainly looks interesting:
http://www.duplicatepoker.com
| Quote: | How it works
Duplicate Poker involves play of Pot Limit and No Limit Texas Hold'em under the general rules governing that game with four exceptions.
First, there are always two or more tables of players, with the same number of players seated at each table.
Second, an identically shuffled deck of cards is used at each table for each hand played so that players in the same seat position at each table receive the same hole cards and the common cards are the same at each table.
Third, every player begins each hand with the same number of playing chips, regardless of how he/she may have done in any previous hand.
Fourth, the winner of each hand is determined based on the number of chips he or she has at the end of the game as compared with those held by all players in the same seat at the other tables.
Determining winners by comparing the results achieved by the players playing identical hands eliminates the luck of the draw element normally associated with poker so that skill is what determines who wins, not whether you got good cards or bad cards. Every hand can win if it is well played. |
Anyone got any views on it?
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Note to mods: I don't think this post breaches any rules, I'm just asking if anyone has played at the site and has any views as I am thinking of playing there. If it does then please edit/delete as appropriate but please let me know what rules I have broken so I do not do it again! Cheers  |
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cybrarian
Retired Moderator
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 11230
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| The consensus elsewhere seems to be that it's a terrible idea. I don't think it's as awful as some are making out (interesting in theory, and perhaps as a mass teaching tool?, but highly problematic to implement in the real world), but I won't be depositing. |
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mclelands
1K Club
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 1039
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| They held a live (yes, live) duplicate poker tourney at the Oklahoma State Poker Championship last year. I was there a few days before and got to sit in and test it for a bit, was very interesting. I don't see it really taking off though. |
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Maiden
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 321
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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A few of us on IRC had a bash at it on Friday night, it's an interesting concept.
Their claims that it is more of a skill game than normal poker is a load of old bollocks tho; if your seat opponents are at a table full of donks, and you're at a table full of rocks, it's obvious that your opponent will get more chips from winning hands than you will. |
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cybrarian
Retired Moderator
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 11230
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| I just read a ciaffone article about a duplicate tourney - he address the point that Maiden raises with the answer that this is true of any competition. There are strong and weak opponents in any sport, and someone will have to be drawn against Tiger Woods (although if we're talking matchplay, I'd probably want to avoid Els) while others get easier rides. |
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taz115
Hzamm9rd, Yo!!!
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 8428
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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If thats the case table selection would be key... in fact it may be the one factor that allows a decent player to be EV unless the tables are all relatively similar in skills.
This idea is interesting theoretically as cyb says, but it wont take off in the poker world in my opinion. The tables are apparently really slow and its way to gimmicky. |
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Maiden
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 321
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| cybrarian wrote: | | I just read a ciaffone article about a duplicate tourney - he address the point that Maiden raises with the answer that this is true of any competition. There are strong and weak opponents in any sport, and someone will have to be drawn against Tiger Woods (although if we're talking matchplay, I'd probably want to avoid Els) while others get easier rides. |
Maybe so, but in a golf competition, (or even a normal poker tourney), sooner or later the best players need to be beaten in order for someone else to win .
In a duplicate poker tourney where there are multiple winners, you are playing against specific people, not the whole field, and the tourney ends after a set number of hands, not when it is down to one winner.
In a normal poker tourney it's possible to come back from a 10-1 against chip lead, as in theory you have unlimited time (blinds permitting) to do it. In duplicate poker, if you are 1-10 in chips against your seat opponent with only 3 hands left to play, you are pretty much screwed.
Therefore I stand by my original assessment, that a player at a rock table can have a big disadvantage against a same seat player at a donk table. |
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cybrarian
Retired Moderator
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 11230
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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You make a good point. I don't know how these things are run, though - do you just constantly play against the same table? Or do people move around? Do you play a level and eliminate the losers, then re-sit and start over? That would thin the field somewhat. I think this is what they did in the tourney ciaffone talks about, because he mentions the last hand where one seat was dealt 83o. Two people in that seat played the hand, realising they had nothing to lose (it's like a charity casino night where they give you the chips, and the people with the most chips at the end of the night take their choice of the prizes - on the last spin of the roulette wheel your strategy should be to make sure you finish with enough chips to win a prize. There is no downside to betting heavily if you are behind)...
...anyway, I was saying about the 83o. 83o won that hand, so it was way better to play it than not to.
Although if you ended up with 2 tables (presumably the minimum ) and the person in your seat on another table won a stack when one of his opponents randomly misplayed a hand... that would hurt. |
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Maiden
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 321
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| cybrarian wrote: | You make a good point. I don't know how these things are run, though - do you just constantly play against the same table? Or do people move around? Do you play a level and eliminate the losers, then re-sit and start over? That would thin the field somewhat. I think this is what they did in the tourney ciaffone talks about, because he mentions the last hand where one seat was dealt 83o. Two people in that seat played the hand, realising they had nothing to lose (it's like a charity casino night where they give you the chips, and the people with the most chips at the end of the night take their choice of the prizes - on the last spin of the roulette wheel your strategy should be to make sure you finish with enough chips to win a prize. There is no downside to betting heavily if you are behind)...
...anyway, I was saying about the 83o. 83o won that hand, so it was way better to play it than not to.
Although if you ended up with 2 tables (presumably the minimum ) and the person in your seat on another table won a stack when one of his opponents randomly misplayed a hand... that would hurt. |
Around half the field are eliminated after the first round, then you are reseated.
Your 83o analogy is bang on, I found myself doing that in a game on Friday night. I found myself miles behind my seat opponents (We had AA on the 7th out of 9 deals. My table folded to my preflop raise, my seat opponents had callers to the river, so I picked up about 150 chips, they picked up about 8k or so, hence what I was saying in my previous replies). With 2 deals left and being so far behind, I was calling/raising/all-in'ing with any 2 cards to try to make up the gap. Hardly what I'd call skillful poker :p
Which brings me back to my original point..Duplicate pokers claim that this game is more skilful than normal poker...is a load of old bollocks  |
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toronexti
53o
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 4153
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| right when they have a huge lead and there's only a couple more hands to go you basically need to push every hand - Since you're going to lose if you don't. I.e. you're freerolling them, and the last time I checked pushing 72o UTG was not a terribly skillful play in hold'em. |
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cybrarian
Retired Moderator
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 11230
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Hmm... I guess that's a problem where the scoring system effectively breaks down as:
Some points to people who finish in the points
No points to everyone else regardless of how badly they did
Which I understand is a fairly traditional format, but as toro and Maiden say, makes a mockery of the skill element in some situations.
And speaking of rules getting in the way of the gamem, now I'm reminded of Barbados v Grenada, Shell Cup, 1994 |
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Piemaster
Author of THE POKER MINDSET
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 6931
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn't there also quite a big problem with cheating especially online? If you slow the game down you can have a friend on another table tell you what hands everybody has and what cards are going to come. |
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Maiden
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 321
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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It's played hand-for-hand, and I think cards (flop, turn, river, showdown) are shown simultaneously on all tables to alleviate the cheating factor
Although, I suppose if I were in seat 1 and had a mate in say seat 3, he could tell me what cards seat 3 has on my table.
Last edited by Maiden on Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cybrarian
Retired Moderator
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 11230
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| If a friend sits in a different seat on another table, though... |
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superwomble
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Dover, Kent, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Cheers for the comments chaps. Must admit I hadn't thought it through enough to think about the points raised, which are good ones. Don't think I'll bother paying to play there but I might have a go at the play money tables just to have a look. |
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