Common problem: short stacked, good hand, not first in

[jfletcher]

I seem to run into this a lot, so I wanted to open it up for discussion.

You are in push-fold territory (whatever that may be to you). You have a hand that would be too weak for a 3-bet under normal circumstances, but is more than good enough for a short-stacked push-first-in. I'm thinking AQ, AJ, KJ, 99-66. That sort of thing. Obviously, these would be instapushes first-in with a M of 3 or 4, but how differently do you handle it if someone else has already made a normal raise?

I've been usually just pushing anyway with these hands, becasue they are still well above average hands and I might be better off pushing these against another possibly strong opponent than waiting and having to push first in with A3 or something much weaker.

However, I'm starting to wonder if that's the right strategy. I'm starting to think that, unless you are first-in, you really shouldn't lower your 3-bet standards, even when short-stacked. Maybe I am better pushing first in with random cards than 3-betting with a good-but-not-great hand?

(Background: I just busted out of a tourney on the bubble last night. I had an M of 3.5 and pushed over an MP 3X raiser with AJs, figuring his raise may have been a bubble steal. He had AQs and bounced me. It then occurred to me that two of my WSOP bustouts were also 3-bet pushes over a raiser, with AQ against KK and with KJ against AJ. Dominated all three times.)

[jfletcher]

Anyone?

[nsidestrate]

I try to avoid pushing over someone I know will call unless I'm really confident I'm ahead of his range. I'd also much rather push medium pairs than hands like AJ/KJ, which tend to suck against his range. I'd even rather push 33 than KJ.

Having said that, I'd avoid pushing against EP raisers and most MP raisers. Against possible steals from the hijack or later, I'd be more inclined to shove, especially if they have been more active than most. If I think their steal range includes hands I dominate or medium suited connectors, I'm much more willing to put it in.

[chrisjp]

Agree with nside. I'll do it hijack or later for sure. Of course it's great to just win the pot right now, but with this M I'm willing to gamble for the double up too. But against early or tightish middle position raisers I don't like the trouble hands. When called they are too likely to be dominated.

Chris

[toronexti]

why aren't u 3-betting AQ PF?

[jfletcher]

[Cript]

They key is to always put them on a hand you can beat. If you have AJ, then they have AT...making your push very + ev.

If you aren't a good enough reader to do that, put them on a hand range like 22-33, A2-AT.

[nsidestrate]

[Martio8]

My philosophy on this subject, is that for a given stack size certain hands cannot be folded.
For example, AQ is good for up to around 15BB in my opinion.
If you overpush with AQ and your opponent wakes up with AK so be it.
You are also going to catch a lot of calls from AJ AT and even JTs type hands.

Depending on how you rank your hands, AQ is a top 4% hand and has to be ahead of most opening ranges.
MAYBE you could fold to an early position weak/tighty.

[ImBetterDude]

[SpaceLord]

jtfletcher:

If you are a member of PXF, sheets has made a calculator available to members covering this.

For example(assumptions are in bold):

4 players to act behind you.
You have, let's say, 77.
Your stack size is 41k, and the blinds are 2400/1200/250, so your M is 7.
Let's say the big stack is opening top 15%, and 2.5BBs.
He will call your shove with 8% of hands.
The people behind will also call with 8%.

Plugging those into the calculator:
66 is slightly +chip EV
55 just misses.

[toronexti]

[SpaceLord]