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mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 443 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: Bet sizing |
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Does anyone know any good links, literature, or videos to explain bet sizing? I'm slightly confused as to why you bet a certain amount pre and post flop.
For example, CO raises it 3 times the BB and I'm on the BTN with KK. What kind of standard size re raise do I make it and what are the factors that determine the size?
And also post flop, what determines the size of the bet? Draw heavy board? Player type? Of the videos I've seen so far there's a lot of 2/3 and 3/4 of the pot bets on the flop with top pair. Do we basically bet a certain amount of the pot to charge hands with inferior equity and draw potential?
I know this is as basic as it comes, but as I said in a previous post I've never played NL in my life. |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22652
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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My standard 3-bet is twice the size of the pot. If the blinds are $0.50/$1.00 and the raise was to $3 and no one else is in the pot, it would be to $9. If someone called in between, it would be to $15.. If I had a specific reason to bet more or less, I'd adjust from there.
Bet sizing on the flop is a more complex topic, but in general you bet larger on draw heavy boards and less on dry boards. Some people make about the same size c-bet on all boards and I don't think that is a terrible approach either (especially until you get more experience). |
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taz115 Hzamm9rd, Yo!!!
Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 8476 Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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A decent way to start out is to make the same sized bets like nside said. Preflop raise to 3x + 1 for every limper. So if two players limp and you want to raise raise to 5x the BB. If youwant to reraise someone 3x their raise is a good standard but you can make it 2.5x as well.
Once the blinds and antes become large the average stack of the player remaining is relatively small. So you can typically get away with raising a little bit less, I typically raise 2.75 or 2.5x preflop at this point.
Post flop I tend to vary my bet sizes between 1/2 pot and 3/4 pot depending on my hand strength, number of opponents, and board texture. I don't think you'd be too far off if you bet 3/4 pot all the time when starting out. |
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nsidestrate Suited's Love Monkey
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 22652
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| taz115 wrote: | | If youwant to reraise someone 3x their raise is a good standard but you can make it 2.5x as well. |
You just have to be careful to adjust in multi-way pots. If there was an early limper and a middle position raise to 3xBB and the cut-off, button and SB called, a 3 bet from you in the BB to $9 is way too small. The pot contains $14 already and you would only be asking them to call $6. Everyone should call.
This scenario will be quite rare at higher levels, but at lower limits you will probably see it from time to time. |
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taz115 Hzamm9rd, Yo!!!
Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 8476 Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Very true... there will be more multi-way pots in the lower limits and you should basically adjust your bet size to reflect that. If you keep 3x as your standard and increase it as more players enter the pot you should be ok. |
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Taardvark 1K Club
Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 1137 Location: Fremont, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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There are a couple of schools of thought on this with what Nside and Taz are proposing and the other school which is vary based on position. I think it requires way too much mental gymnastics to do that and I fall into the same school of thought as Nside and Taz. You disguise your hand perfectly well if you are making the same raise with AA, 66, or a bluff.
Post flop betting is much more of an art than a science as you can see by all the factors that Taz outlines. I'd recommend making your flop bets 1/2 to 3/4 the pot starting out but you are going to find times when you can get away with a cheap steal against certain opponents and confuse others by making strange bets like over the pot.
NL is kind of like learning to drive a stick shift. You do a ton of practicing and then all of the sudden it just starts working for you and it all makes sense and you somehow know what to do in certain circumstances.
If you haven't already looked into it, you should think about purchasing the One Hand At a Time book from Rizen, Apestyles, Pearljammer, and Matthew. Not only does it show some of this but you get inside their heads as to what they are thinking and why they made certain bet sizes on the hands they are playing. |
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