Basic 7 card stud questions

[Holgininho]

I've just started playing 7 card stud yesterday, and it seems fun to me.

Now I'm looking for advice/resources to improve my game. So far I've only read the 7 card section in "Fundamentals of Poker" with really isn't all that much.

What book should I read to improve my game? Are there any good articles available on the internet? I frequently read 2+2 magazine, but have left out the 7 card articles there so far.

What are the bankroll requirements for stud? It seems to be less volatile then hold'em, but the pots are bigger on average. How big should my bankroll be for a given limit?

How profitable is playing 7card compared to limit hold'em? I had some nice sessions so far, but this isn't the norm, I fear.

I have lots of other questions, but this should be enough for a start.

Edit: One more question - when is a 7 card game considered loose? At the Cryptos between 40 and 60 % of the players are seeing fourth street (at the lowest limit).

[Taardvark]

I went through a horrendous run playing NL hold em and decided I needed to either quit poker for awhile or try out another game. I had actually learned to play poker when I was in grade school playing stud with my dad so I understood it a bit and decided to devote some time to it. Although it isn't that popular anymore, I think it's a great game. It's helped my overall poker considerably, especially my hand reading skills.

One of the nice things about the stud tables is that they don't limit your buy in, at least on Stars and Full Tilt, so you can go to the table, check the stacks of your opponents, and then play an amount that makes you a big stack. Most players don't do this and I use this to my advantage.

My working bankroll for .50/1 is about $100. My working bankroll is about $200 for 1/2. To contrast this against my no limit, I tend to play currently at the .10/.25 level. I see about the same types of fluctuations.

My experience is that the swings in stud are pretty significant and as a player who tilts a bit, this was something that I needed to get used to. This also helped me in an unexpected way and I have become much more disciplined and don't tilt nearly as often as I used to. Let me give you an example of my play from yesterday evening. I bought into a Full Tilt .50/1 for $40. I played for an hour. I was up to $60 at one point, down to $20 at one point, and finished around $45, so basically a break even session. This was in the course of an hour.

I don't fancy myself as the greatest poker player around. I think I am good, have a lot of upside potential, and understand poker pretty well, and I find that I come out ahead about 70-80% of my stud sessions, about even (I consider winning just a few bucks or losing less than 10% of my buy in for that session in the about even category), and the rest losing sessions.

Table dynamics are important, but you are going to find it plays a great deal like the no fold em hold em tables of the micro levels. It is a drawing game, and it has some interesting nuances. A player can misplay early in the hand and get themselves committed to the pot that it actually becomes correct for them to continue calling (they incorrectly play themselves into a situation where drawing becomes correct because the odds are right).

Tight play at the lowest levels like the ones I play at is more often than not correct and is usually an overlay. As the antes become a more significant factor, loosing up is actually correct. Overall, the play tends to be pretty loose. You can win some monster pots in stud and you see a lot gambling. You have to be prepared for the seventh street suckouts. They happen a lot. On the other hand, you will have a made full house and get someone chasing a flush who hits and pays you off.

"Winning 7 Card Stud" by Adams is a good starter book. Sklansky's book is good too but is a little more geared toward higher limits (where looser play is more correct). The concepts are more in depth so it does have value for a lower limit player as well.

I still play a decent amount of stud and have gone back to NL hold em and also dabble in limit hold em as well and have found that my time of playing stud exclusively has really helped my overall poker muscles.

[the knob]

Regarding books, I can offer a couple titles as suggestions that I've heard are good, but have not read yet (just have them piled on my table at the moment). The first is 7-Card Stud : 42 Lessons How to Win at Medium & Lower Limits by Roy West. Sklansky also has a Stud book, but it is listed as for advanced players, so can't say if you are ready for that one yet or not.

[Taardvark]

I also forgot to mention that the 7-card stud section in Super System written by Chip Reese is also good. You can't go wrong with a chapter written by the person most consider the best 7-card stud player around. However, you should have a grasp of stud before reading it because it assumes you already know the game at least enough to understand the basics.

[flafishy]

A real good beginner's book is Ashley Adams' "Winning 7-Card Stud."

[Holgininho]

Thank you all for the great advice.

Unfortunately I just ordered Super System II, because I assumed there would be a stud section in it, now it seems this section is missing in the second edition.

I think I am going to try the book by Adams then.

It's interesting that you mention improving your overall poker by playing stud, Taardvark. I've had the same thoughts about pot limit omaha. Right now I think that playing different games can help to improve each of them by understanding the conceptual differences between the games. Of course, I don't know if this makes sense at all, but at least I'm thinking about it.

[Taardvark]

[nsidestrate]

Adams' book is good and I'm assuming you have read Theory of Poker. Virtually everyone plays way too loose in 7 Stud. If you tighten up, you'll be ahead of most players. It is often much easier to read the other guy's hand in 7 card stud and this will sometimes allow you to bluff a bit easier than in Hold'Em. It was the first game I learned, so I still have a soft spot in my heart for it.

[Holgininho]

[Pentahouve]

I've played a little bit of micro limit stud and have enjoyed it. The only thing I've read is the chapter (well more like a paragraph really) in Herbert O. Yardley's "The Education of a Poker Player"

It's basically a five point list of what to draw to and what not.

I found that at the micro limit's on Poker Stars about 2/3rds stayed til 5 street and I came out ahead most times by playing within Yardley's rules. I'd like to learn a bit more, and was going to try to do this with experience only but have changed my mind. I've read mixed things about Roy West's book.......was going to buy it anyway.....and then move up to Sklansky's Advanced book........how does the Adams book compare to West's?

[nsidestrate]

[Pentahouve]

[chillrob]

I concur that Adams' book is much better than West's.

Rob

[nsidestrate]

[Holgininho]

One more beginner's question: Why aren't you supposed to complete if you have to bring it in? I got dealt a pair of kings in the hole recently with an open trey. I decided it was a good idea to complete to thin the field. Or wasn't it?