bankroll question

[andrews211]

is $600 a ok starting bankroll for 2/4 online?

[the_hawk]

Not an expert (let alone the expert) but can answer this one with fair confidence...

150 big bets is not even close to enough, doubly so if you're playing short-handed. "Standard" bankroll requirements for limit hold 'em are something like 300BB in full ring and more (maybe 500BB) for short-handed. And these assume that you're a winning player at the limit.

These "requirements" assume you have a wish to (a) play at a given limit for a sustained period and (b) can't, or don't want to, replenish your bankroll from other sources.

If you're prepared to drop down limits at more or less the first sign of trouble, and/or you can top up your bankroll as needed, you can work with a considerably thinner bankroll. But do bear in mind that rapid, savage drops of 50-100 BB (sometimes more) are pretty routine; if such a drop is going to wipe out a large portion of your bankroll, tread carefully.

[Willem]

I currently use a 1000BB bankroll. Losing sessions over 50BB are common, as are downswings 100BB or greater.

[TerryBorer]

Yes, it is plenty.

In my book, I claim 500 big bets are need for short-handed play. Other authors and writers roughly agree.

But I deviate from others by going on to say that for most people a smaller bankroll is much better (see Limit Hold'em: winning short-handed strategies page 325):

As the_hawk points out, the 500 big bets assumes you can't ever replenish your bankroll and you are a winning player. It also assumes you want a very low chance of going broke. You're not a professional player. Going broke online doesn't mean you lose your job. If you're not a winning player then no bankroll is big enough and buying in for more will actually hurt you. Finally you almost certainly can replenish your bankroll if needed.

$2000 to play 2/4 is simply too much to start with. Buy in, get a bonus, play your best and have fun. If you win great, build up your bankroll. If you lose, take a break, work on your game and then buy in again and earn another bonus. The most you can lose if things go wrong is $600. If you lose 150 big bets it probably wasn't luck.

If you go on tilt and decide to play 10/20 (or even 30/60) you can't lose all two grand, just $600. Having a smaller bankroll acts as a general deterrent for playing higher too (clearly $600 is not enough for 10/20 but $2000 makes it tempting).

So my answer is yes, $600 is plenty. Stop or drop down if you are down to $100 to avoid playing with "scared money". And don't let those sharks talk you into bringing more cash onto the table

[Misunderstud]

Hi, Terry

Thanks for being our guest this month.

Well, that's certainly a different take on bankroll management (for this forum, at least), and, though I can't fault your logic, I'd have to take issue with your implication that being non-professional makes going broke somewhat irrelevant.

For those of us who have painstakingly built our BRs from small initial deposits, to lose all or a large part of it would be quite devastating, psychologically if not financially. If my BR were to disappear I'd be most unwilling, and probably unable, to replace it (not to mention the big hole it would leave in my free-time calendar ).

I lack both the skill and the will to be a professional; nevertheless, I hope to generate a spare-time income that will have a significant, though admittedly not vital, effect on my standard of living. I wouldn't want to lose that opportunity in an under-bankrolled downswing. Sure, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would be the end of poker for me. I guess it's the old gamer vs. gambler thing.

But I don't think there is anyway a 'right' answer to the OP's question as framed, because we don't have enough information. If $600 is all he has (i.e it really is his BR), and he wants a long-term future in online LHE, he'd be foolish to risk it all at 2/4 whether he's a winning player at that level or not. At the other extreme, if he's looking at the poker table like a roulette wheel, he might just as well sit down at 10/20 and hope to be dealt a few AAs before he goes bust.

Since he's taken the time to ask, though, I have to assume he's at least a little concerned about losing his stack. Finding a limit to fit your BR is putting the cart before the horse. In the absence of further information, he might be best advised first to find the level at which he's confident of winning and then look at his BR. If he's an online novice, 2/4 is not the ideal place to dip his toe in the water, and it's a lot less painful playing too low and winning than playing too high and losing.

Mis

[taz115]

I almost always tell new players that they should use proper bankroll management but I’ve never been a huge stickler for it in practice. I’ve always moved money in and out of poker and my ‘true’ bankroll was undefined but larger that my actual current BR. Even when I was roughly following decent BR Management a couple of years ago I’d take shots at the limit higher when I had 250BB or so and if I lost 50BB I’d be back down to my regular limit with plenty of ammo to build back up.

This strategy led to a few large losing days where 25% of your BR might get decimated but it when I got on a heater I moved up very quickly. That being said at the time my skill level probably allowed me to play 10/20 profitably and I was playing 2/4 so taking shots at 3/6 was an ok idea.

I wouldn’t recommend a newbie start playing 2/4 just because he has $600 and he wants to take a shot at moving up. I don’t know if the original poster is new to the game or not, but if you always play short bankrolled and your not good enough to beat the games (or if you’re a break even player) your going to broke eventually. Playing with a short BR is ok idea in my opinion if you KNOW that you’re a winner at a certain level and your doing with the intention of building up to an acceptable BR level and not just so you can take a shot at the next higher level once your short BR is enough for a couple of buy-ins.

taz115

[the_hawk]

In spite of the facade of seemingly diametrically opposite opinion, I think everyone is saying pretty much the same thing.

Having said that I'll expand on a couple of points:

[JoeStimpy]

I thought this Ed Miller post regarding BR management was pretty good: http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/articles/bankroll-schmankroll-its-all-about-budgeting.html

Ed's comments are kind of similar to Terry's thoughts, I think in general the BR management thing is somewhat of a personal preference and depends on a person's situation and what they want to get out of poker.