AT with top pair on the turn

[Schlepper333]

Not sure about the call of the turn raise. Could his raise on the turn be a be a probe for information or maybe a set. But with top TPTK on the turn I don't think I can give up.


Poker Stars $0.10/$0.20 Limit Hold'em - 10 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is MP1 with T : A :
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB checks

Flop: (6 SB) 4 : 8 : 5 : (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, SB folds

Turn: (5 BB) T : (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB folds, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls, MP2 calls

River: (11 BB) 2 : (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds

[Misunderstud]

This all looks a bit marginal to me, from the flop call onwards. (I could fold here and be done with it.) Will he peel the flop with a worse T and then raise it up when you bet the turn? If so, then OK, but I'm thinking straight/set/2pr, and if you call the turn, you'll probably have to call the river. Most probes for information come on the flop; most turn raises mean what they say, esp. in a multiway pot.

[omega man]

i would have raised pre flop even with 2 limpers.
Having just limped in i fold this flop.
Another thing to think about is u could hit ur hand and lose to a re-draw on the river.

[Schlepper333]

Valuable and well stated. Want to take this opportunity to say I appreciate the manner in which others respond to my posts in this forum.I know that most of my posts prolly seem very elementary to the majority. I posted at the 'other' site for a few weeks back in the Spring and my apprentice-type posts were met with arrogance and impatience by many. If I happened to miss a line in the so-called stickies or FAQ I was severely berated. I only read the posts there now because they are instructive. I am grateful for your respectful acceptance of my lack of knowledge. I consider myself the limit forum novice and I feel I am in good hands. Thanks again.

Schlepper

[Misunderstud]

[Damien]

[janeg]

I would have raised PF, ATo is decently ahead of most hands people would limp, unless they like to limp/re-raise +KK, AK in which case a raise would smoke them out. A raise may also buy you the Button.

As played, I'd fold the flop. The board has draws that don't fit your hand well, hitting the Ace could cost you if anyone has A8, A4, A5 and with 6 people in you could easily be up against a set of 44's, 55's, or 88's or a 76 for a made straight. People at this level often misplay their big hands on the flop, especially when the board is 2-suited; instead of trying to build the pot when they're ahead they wait for safe turn cards or try to be tricky, raising on the turn to get bigger bets.

[Damien]

Another hand that I am glad you posted Schlep. Would have played it the same way as you. The lesson I learn from this hand is that when that many people see the flop, overcards are probably not going to cut it.

[Misunderstud]

[janeg]

[Schlepper333]

[janeg]

Not quite sure how good the advice is, I found I am profitable with it when I raise; and am most profitable with it when I raise limpers. I still misplay it though, usually from the blinds.

If you're profitable with it now you may want to track how you fare with raising it over the next while.

[Schlepper333]

[shallam]

Preflop.

w ATo in mid position you could consider raising, in an open pot I'd usually raise (except in super loose/passive games). The downside is that you'd be building a big pot with a mediocrish hand. Overall I like just calling here.

The best flop would be AT, or a bunch of T's. Next best is an A. Sometimes we'll find that our AT is outkicked, but since there was no PFR we are optimistic that our kicker is best.


The Flop.

That flop was not good for you hand. I don't see anything other than overcards. With two overcards I'd discount my 6 outs to no more than 4. Four outs is 11-1 card odds, your pot odds are 8 to 1.


That looks like a fold to me. Fold.

You call, I think that's a mistake.


Can you describe your rationale for making a call here ?


The turn.

Now that a T peels I like your call your afterall !

You were (hopefully) lucky to hit an overcard. You now have top pair and top kicker a good but not great hand -- hopefully the best hand now and at the showdown.

When it's checked to you it seems to me more than justified to bet, whether a raise is in order is a little more iffy but we don't have to worry about that. Then you get C/Red. The check raise by UTG+2 is cause for concern. A C/R on the big bet round is a pretty strong play. But also it's a very strange play. Why would he check a strong hand on the turn when the bettor from the previous round checks ? Obviously he'd be risking a check thru on a double flush draw board. There is no hand strong enough to make a free card ok.


What might UTG+2 have ?


Hands we beat.
1. Tx hands -- KT, QT
---if they are raising with these hands that's pretty agg something we should make a note of.

2. Flush draw. That would be interesting play. It's a little unusual to raise on a draw here. Maybe if they have complex draw, flush+gutshot, flush overcard (AcKc), etc. Seems unlikely.


Hands that beat us.

1. random two pair -- T8, T5, etc
--these hands seem unlikely --- these are pretty crappy hands to call PF way OOP.
--T8s--- maybe ???? Seems like a stretch.

2. A set --- set of Ts would be the least likely since we hold a T. If they have a set -- they flopped a set and called rather than raised with several opps behind and with several draws possible.

Wouldn't they raise the flop with a flush draw on board - in a moderately large pot ?


3. A straight. Very unlikely -- not only because it would take weird cards, but they would have slowplayed the flop, with possible flush draw. Again wouldn't they have raised the flop.


4. Overpair. Unlikely



Summary Hand Analysis
I can't put him on a hand that would call the flop and C/R the turn.

Either he's got a very weird hand or he's a very weird player.

I'm confused.


The River.

Well we don't have to worry about deciding wether to bet and face a check raise -- he bet. Good thing because frankly I don't have a good read here. With another player behind and third flushie here on the river calling seems like the best play and nearly a no brainer.



Summary.

Other than your play on the flop I like the way you played this hand.
If you won you got very lucky. If you lost, well that's one of the reasons that calling with naked overcards is undesirable.

I have to admit to being confused in this hand. I really have no good idea what your opp has. Your opps CR on the turn is a very weird play in the context of the previous betting.

Fortunately you didn't have any tough decisions that would benefit from a good read. The river call -- I think -- is a no brainer.

What hands were shown ?

[shallam]