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Damien
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Donk Betting the Flop
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: Are all playing styles profitable? |
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I'm looking at the players with fairly large sample sizes in my PokerTracker database... I'm not surprised that there are both profitable TAG and LAG players, but it is a little surprising to see a few profitable loose-passive players... I was under the impression that this was a losing strategy overall. Can some players "master" this style or are they just getting lucky? Here are a couple of their stats:
25/6/1.55 ... ok, this isn't that loose or that passive, but still
25/8/1.25 ... this guys been crushing every table I see him at, just lucky? |
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Fumseck
Cannuque
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3358
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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How many hands for each?
In the long run you should only have 2 winning styles. LAG and TAG. Both are aggressive.
When you play passive, you can only win with a better hand at showdown. When you play aggressive, you can with 2 ways: by making your opponent fold or by having the best hand.
By being the aggressor, you dictate the size of the pot you want to play.
Passiveness is a recipe for disaster... |
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Damien
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Donk Betting the Flop
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm.. probably not enough, only a few hundred actually. I guess he should enjoy his 13BB/100 while he can... unless he's just got really great cards every time I see him in which case his VPIP might be closer to 20...
I thought passive was bad... but a lot of passive players have pulled some great 2 outers on me recently and I started to think that maybe they were on to something  |
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Fumseck
Cannuque
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3358
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Damien wrote: | | I thought passive was bad... but a lot of passive players have pulled some great 2 outers on me recently and I started to think that maybe they were on to something |
Believe me I know what you mean. 
Linky |
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Damien
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Donk Betting the Flop
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I saw that one earlier 
Glad I don't play NL 
That's one of the BADDEST beats I have ever seen |
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wade
Should be Banned
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 3090
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Damien wrote: | | Hmm.. probably not enough, only a few hundred |
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Llanlad
Whinge-Free
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 3654
Location: Educating LFC fans
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Well after being owned on the cash tables for some while and then having a break playing only MTT's i went back to the cash tables last night and decided to LAG it up a little .
I only played 70 hands on the FR tables and ran at 123.94BB/100 hands and played a 40/29 style ..
I normally play a more passive 15/9 or something but this is a new screen name and thought i change my approach ..
I won half a buy in with KK when i was called all the way down by BB's T2o on a Q5T74 board ..
I know this style can go very wrong ... but its worth another attempt tonight !! |
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Fumseck
Cannuque
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3358
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Llanlad wrote: | | I normally play a more passive 15/9 or something but this is a new screen name and thought i change my approach. |
You mean "tighter" right and not passive?
| Llanlad wrote: | | I won half a buy in with KK when i was called all the way down by BB's T2o on a Q5T74 board .. |
That's the power of the LAG style, people don't give you credit for your good hands... |
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Llanlad
Whinge-Free
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 3654
Location: Educating LFC fans
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You mean "tighter" right and not passive? |
You nitpicking with me Fumseck ?
Even though 15/9 for a FR table is not terribly tight /passive ... i FEEL passive when im playing that way ..
I am trying my darnest to open up nowadays .. there are so many taggy types today ... a break from the normal could well turn out profitable .. |
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Scully
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 728
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure I could ever play a 15/9 style. Then again my attempt to steal % is >40. This, along with my penchant for three betting button raises from the BB with utter trash, may have a lot to do with it |
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Llanlad
Whinge-Free
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 3654
Location: Educating LFC fans
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Scully wrote: | | I'm not sure I could ever play a 15/9 style. Then again my attempt to steal % is >40. This, along with my penchant for three betting button raises from the BB with utter trash, may have a lot to do with it |
Are we talking full ring or 6 max ? |
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mconstab
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Location: Warwickshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Damien wrote: | Hmm.. probably not enough, only a few hundred actually. I guess he should enjoy his 13BB/100 while he can... unless he's just got really great cards every time I see him in which case his VPIP might be closer to 20...
I thought passive was bad... but a lot of passive players have pulled some great 2 outers on me recently and I started to think that maybe they were on to something |
You need thousands of hands to determine whether someone is a winner or not and probably nearer 100k hands to determine a true winrate. For example, for the 30k hands I've played at $5/$10 limit 6max my BB/100 is 2.42. I'm not going to read anything into this until I reach something like 80k hands. The variance in 6max is so big that 50k breakeven stretches are possible for a winning player. |
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Scully
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 728
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Llanlad wrote: | | Scully wrote: | | I'm not sure I could ever play a 15/9 style. Then again my attempt to steal % is >40. This, along with my penchant for three betting button raises from the BB with utter trash, may have a lot to do with it |
Are we talking full ring or 6 max ? |
6 max |
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Llanlad
Whinge-Free
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 3654
Location: Educating LFC fans
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Scully wrote: | | Llanlad wrote: | | Scully wrote: | | I'm not sure I could ever play a 15/9 style. Then again my attempt to steal % is >40. This, along with my penchant for three betting button raises from the BB with utter trash, may have a lot to do with it |
Are we talking full ring or 6 max ? |
6 max |
Ahh ic ... 15/9 on a 6 max table is very tight .... not so tight for a full ring table ..
Ive allways been under the impression a LAG style just would not work on a full ring table ... but after playing a fair bit of FR over the last year im begining to think otherwise .. |
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blah730235
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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My 2 cents...
I think that some of the really good players could probably run with loose-passive stats and still make a profit. However they would have to really know how to abuse their table image and make spot on reads often. |
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