Anything wrong with this hand?

[Da_Big_Fish]

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3.40
Hero: $9.15
MP1: $4.75
MP2: $3
MP3: $0
CO: $3.35
Button: $10
SB: $9.50
BB: $2.85

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.35, 3 folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: ($1.1, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.55, Button calls.

Turn: ($2.2, 3 players)
Hero bets $2.2, Button calls.

River: ($6.6, 3 players)
Hero bets $3.3, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $13.2

[Taardvark]

Raising with KQ from up front is usually a recipe for disaster. It doesn't play well out of position and unless it folds to the blinds, that's what you are going to have to do. In early position I'd fold this.

Once in, your play on the flop is standard, even if we don't have top pair 2nd kicker.

Your bet on the turn is a little big. The nine didn't likely help villian's hand so it's not really a scare card. You can force an opponent on the draw or with a weaker hand to not get odds by betting less.

Alternate line: check the turn and keep the pot small with a medium strength hand.

The ace on the river is horrible. At this level villian's often call down with any ace and if that's the case, you just got beat. It's also a club and if villian was drawing to clubs he's also hit.

Had you checked on the turn you could again check and call a reasonable sized bet from villian and hope it's a bluff.

Bottom Line: You built a pretty big pot with a hand that isn't very strong out of position. That's going to kill you long-term in NL.

[blah730235]

I know most knowledged players would advise you to throw this away preflop but I think the preflop line is fine if you are at the right table, have a solid image & keep your thinking cap on postflop. Here's a couple comments on the preflop line in no particular order...

1. Good players are going to respect your bet from EP if you have a solid TAG table image and likely fold all but their premium hands
2. Bad players might play hands like Q5 or the sorts - hands you have crushed
3. You need to have reads on most of the players at the table because your going to be playing oop postflop & because you need to know who the calling station is and who the TAG is
4. Because we're hoping to isolate a bad player with a hand we have crushed with this line the more bad players there are at the table the better, we shouldn't take this line if the table is full of decent players
5. You need to be able to let top-pair hands go easier than normal if you wind up against a good player

That being said if you have no reads on the majority of the players then muck it. Long story short I think the preflop line is ok at some of the micro tables where there are alot of weak players.

As for postflop I agree with taardvark, you needed to try to control the pot with smaller bet-sizing or check a street. I'd probably elect to check a street most of the time.

[shallam]

Preflop.

KQo from early position is certainly on the lean side. OTOH, it is an open pot so I like coming in for a PFR here. From early pos and a weakish hand I would consider making the PFR x 2.5 or 3 rather than 3.5. You know the table dynamics best and maybe you have a standard raise size to avoid opps reading your hand, plus it's a small difference ...so not a big deal.

PF my thinking is I'd like to either steal the blinds outright or get one weak caller who fold to my flop CB. If I get ReR I'm dumping this hand unless it's only a min raise, then I have to think about calling. I'm getting the right odds to call, but this is hard hand to play -- easily dominated -- harder to play if I'm OOP.


You get two callers. I'm more worried about the button than the BB calling. We'll have to keep our eye on him.

The Flop.

That's an excellent flop for you. Unless one of our opps slowpayed AA, KK, QQ, happens to have AQ, or got very lucky to hit a set here were are in very good shape.

Since there is a flush draw on the flop and we are strong, I like betting about 2/3 the pot. You bet 1/2 the pot, which is a little weak.

The button calls, I don't like that, and the BB apparently folded - no surprise. Since the button calls I think it's a good idea to start putting him on a hand. He could have one of the hands mentioned above (that would be bad), something like QJ, QT, a flush draw or a unimproved pocket pair.

Of all these options I think a pocker pair is the most likely. If he has something like 77, he might put you on AK, calling the flop hoping you'll check the turn.


The Turn.

The turn card certainly seems like a blank. A bet here should win the hand if he has a pocket pair. If he calls, we will need to start thinking more seriously about some of the better hands mentioned above.

I like betting about half the pot here. It's a sizeable pot -- I dont' want to throw away all my money if I'm beat nor do I want to give him the right odds to draw to a flush. Note that by betting half the pot he's getting 3-1 pot odds when his card odds are 4 to 1 to hit a flush.

Your pot sized bet is awfully big. Perhaps you were confident he had a flush. If you are very confident you can go all in. Of course if he has Q-weaker kicker this is a great bet. I'd start considering the possiblity that we are beat and moderate my bet size.

Why did you bet so much more on the turn (pot) than the flop (1/2pot) ?

He calls. Wow, what the hell does he have ?


The River.

I don't like this card. If he has an A or if he was on a flush draw he now has us beat. If has a hand like QJ, he should be scared to death that you have an A. If he had a pocket pair he should have folded. I'd either check or make a small value bet.

Your bet is pretty big I have hard understanding how he can call with a worse hand, unless he is a very bad player. You having an A is very believable given the context of the betting.



Summary.

I like your PFR. I like betting a little more on the flop and little less on the turn. Maybe a 2/3 to a full pot size bet on the flop and 1/2 the pot on the turn.

I don't like the river bet. Too big. I'd either check or make a smaller value type bet, so a weaker hand can call me.

[Da_Big_Fish]

Thanks for the breakdown Shallam! Awesome, thanks for taking the time.

[blah730235]

[Da_Big_Fish]

Yeah sorry. He had it all the way.

[shallam]

You are very lucky he didn't put you all in on the river --- what little is remaining.
I think your opp made a mistake in not getting more value for his hand.

As a final note this is EXACTLY the reason that KQo is such a marginal hand. You have very sig risk of being dominated by AK, AQ, AA, KK, & QQ. Esp when up against AK and AQ you won't know that you are beat until it's too late. Against the others you have a better chance of getting away from your hand PF, or when you whiff on the flop.

[shallam]

[Da_Big_Fish]

If I were him, I would have raise on the flop and definitely on the river. He could have got me for a lot more that's for sure.

I went broke on Full Tilt yesterday thanks to these two back to back bombshells (link).

Be back playing soon. Thanks for the analysis!

[ImBetterDude]

"BTW, I don't like your opps play. Aside from failing to get full value when he hits top 2 pair on the river, calling PFRs w AQo is a recipe for disaster in most near full table NL games. I think he played too loose PF and too passive on the river."

Are you telling me that you fold A Q to any preflop raise? That can't be right I must be misunderstanding you, because A Q is a very strong hand, especially at a microstake table. In fact, against these players it occasionally warrants a 3 bet IMO.

And I don't mind Villains line post flop either. He flopped TPTK, and at this level it's easily a hand worth slow playing a bit.

[Da_Big_Fish]

[Soultwister]

[quote[From early pos and a weakish hand I would consider making the PFR x 2.5 or 3 rather than 3.5.[/quote]

Interesting comment, but isn't this a bit counterintuitive? What a smaller open size would mean here is that it makes it cheaper for people to call you with a wider range, or raise for a lower price. Considering your EP range should be quite strong, why make it so small?

Opening smaller would get even more people to call or raise with marginal hands, and you'll be OOP for the rest of the hand. Do you really want to induce more calls/raises when OOP postflop?

OOP most of your hands are looking to get 1 street of value or a fold on either first or second barrel, IP can maniplate pot size, so should the smaller opening raises not rather be reserved for late position openings?

I like your analysis for the rest though although I disagree about the river comments. Betting half-pot is not too big, it is actually quite small in my eyes. I think in a spot like this you can safely value-bet, and with that river card the most profitable river bet is based about hands from villain that will call. If you are only trying to extract value from worse Q's, and hands like JJ/TT at times.

The problem with the river is that the nut flush draw is a decent part of villain's range. Without the flushdraw, I'd probably bet something like $5 here. With the A arriving, I'd be a bit worried about the nut flush draw, so would be more inclined to bet something like $4.5 or $4. But not much smaller.

OP's river bet is fine in my eyes too, since it gets perhaps even more calls, but I really fail to see how his bet can be too large. The only situation I would consider betting much smaller here is with a hand like AQ, trying to get a bluffraise out of a wider range based on villain's tendencies.

I would not be playing it much different than OP, I would definitely raise this UTG +1 and I think folding it here is losing valuie, I would bet slightly more on the flop, less on the turn, and more on the river, but overall, I think his play is pretty fine here.

*edit* oops, this was full ring. I don't play FR so forget my comments :/ *edit*

[shallam]

[shallam]