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AJs (BB) vs. UTG Raise

 
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Schlepper333
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Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: AJs (BB) vs. UTG Raise Reply with quote

Villain is TAGG 16/9/3.8. Hasn't shown down yet.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.20 Limit Hold'em - 10 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with A Spade: J Spade:
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 7 folds, Hero calls

Flop: (4.5 SB) 6 Club: A Heart: 4 Diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ??

What's the plan here? Call down? Fold the turn if we don't hit a J?
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Misunderstud
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Here, stupid

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you might be better off donking the flop here. He will probably call down with a big PP HU. If you're raised, you need to assess the likelihood of AA/AK-Q vs aggression with a worse hand. (Basically, check the turn UI and decide whether to call down or fold if he bets - based on the stats, I'd fold.) If he just calls, then raises the turn, I'd imagine it's a pretty safe fold too. If he checks behind on the turn, you can bet the river.

Alternatively, and as played, you could c/r the flop and apply much the same reasoning, but I like that slightly less because it should pretty much eliminate any doubt in his mind that you have an A, so may scare off worse hands that would otherwise pay you off. (Having said that, it's probably what I would do, but that is for metagame considerations.)
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Damo_1
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Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 1063
Location: Playing sets fast

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely this is a WA/WB situation?
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thew92



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 882
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would check raise the flop and lead every street. If the villain shows any more aggression just call down from there. You are really only behind AA, AK, AQ all lilkey hands for the villian but your also ahead of AT, KQ, KK QQ TT 99 88 also in the villians range.

I don't hate the call down either.

Folding is terrible.
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Schlepper333
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Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did call down, but I do like the C/R play. I guess I have a stigma about the pejorative 'donk bet'. Maybe someone could address 'donk betting' in general. If I hadn't been aware of the shadow surrounding donk betting I would certainly have led out.

BTW villain turned over AQ diamonds. Board was 6c-Ah-4d-8h-3d.

Schlepp
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the_hawk
Chelsea FTW!


Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 4448

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schlepper333 wrote:
Maybe someone could address 'donk betting' in general.


It's not necessarily bad. Will that do?

Quote:
If I hadn't been aware of the shadow surrounding donk betting I would certainly have led out.


Well now you know. Wink
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Misunderstud
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Here, stupid

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_hawk wrote:
Schlepper333 wrote:
Maybe someone could address 'donk betting' in general.


It's not necessarily bad. Will that do?

Quote:
If I hadn't been aware of the shadow surrounding donk betting I would certainly have led out.


Well now you know. Wink


Succinct as ever. Welcome back Wink
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Bugsbunny
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Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 7687
Location: Drinking Carrot juice

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donk betting can be a pretty powerful tool in the arsenal Smile I like to donk bet, especially in situations that may confuse my opponent. I like to donk bet as a bluff, semi-bluff - but in order for that to work I also need to donkbet real hands.

I'll also donkbet into a preflop raiser wth a marginal hand when I want him to hopefully raise, clear the field, and leave me HU with him for the rest of the hand.

In the hand here there's a number of ways you can play it. You have a TAG raising preflop from EP. If he has an A you're probably dominated. At best you have the same kicker. If the hand wasn't suited I would fold this preflop, as it is the call is fine.

The way I normally play this is:
check/call the flop
check/call the turn.
donk the river. (without more knowledge I call a raise).

Other possibilities include:
c/r the flop, lead the turn
lead the flop, 3 bet if he raises, lead the turn. I might fold to a turn raise here, although it's unusual. But you've shown a lot of strength. This line I prefer for other situations though, more than the type of hand here.
Just call down
Lead the flop, call a raise, then lead the turn.

But standard for me is the first method, against someone that is likely to have a better A. He's also unlikely to raise you if all he has is one pair, but unless you know that for sure you have to call a raise.
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