7 Card Stud Hi/Lo (HORSE) hand - did I play it badly?

[Baz501]

Can anybody give me any advice as to how well/badly I played this hand. This hand got me crippled and I don't know if it could've been avoided, especially given my draws to the wheel (LO) and nut flush (HI) on 3rd street

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Blinds $80/$160 Ante $16

Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1 $2034
Seat 2 $1882
Seat 3 $1510
Seat 4 (Villain) $1339
Seat 5 $1675
Seat 6 $794
Seat 7 $1247
Seat 8 (Hero) $1519

Antes posted

*** 3rd STREET ***

Seat 1 xx xx
Seat 2 xx xx
Seat 3 xx xx
Villain xx xx
Seat 5 xx xx
Seat 6 xx xx
Seat 7 xx xx
Hero

Seat 2 brings in 24, 1 fold, 2 calls, 2 folds , Hero raises to 80, 2 folds, Villain & Seat 5 call

*** 4th STREET ***

Villain xx xx |
Seat 5 xx xx |
Hero |

Hero bets 80, 2 calls

*** 5th STREET ***

Villain xx xx |
Seat 5 xx xx |
Hero |

Hero bets 160, Villain calls, Seat 5 folds

*** 6th STREET ***

Villain xx xx |
Hero |

Hero checks, Villain bets 160, Hero raises to 320, Villain calls

*** RIVER ***

Villain xx xx | xx
Hero |

Hero bets 160, Villain calls

*** SHOW DOWN ***

Hero shows HI: Pair of Deuces / LO 8,7,4,2,A
Villain shows HI: Pair of Threes / LO 7,6,5,3,A

Villain takes HI and LO pot

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Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Baz

[Willem]

I suck at this game but I'll give my 2 cents.

Your starting hand is excellent but after catching a horrible card on 4th and a mediocre card on 5th, you hand is not really strong anymore.

I would just check-call 5th street. Villain looks to be in contention for low so you don't want him to raise and push seat 5 out. Besides, I doubt villain is going to fold a better hand here.

6th street is just horrible IMO. I would be more tempted to check-fold here than I am to check-raise. If villain has any card A,2,4 or 5 in the hole, then you are hopelessly behind for low. If he has two of these cards, then you are drawing dead for low. You are also terrible for high, since you have just ace high without any draw. The more I look at it, the more I want to fold this.

[nsidestrate]

You are not thinking enough about what the other guy must have. The key to being a good Stud player is reading the other guy. On 6th street, the other guy has caught four low cards. If he started with just one other low card, he has a better low than you do. If he started with another club, he has a flush draw. Your best case here is that you have some outs to win half the pot.

[flafishy]

You played it perfectly through fifth street, but you have to give it up on sixth street.

[Baz501]

Ive looked back at this hand and just come to the realisation that although he played his hand badly (My highest Lo card was better than his...he should've seen that and had no real high hand) I played it equally as bad.

I had not played 7 Card Stud H/L before (Only Seven Card Stud Hi) and now realise the importance of not chasing the Lo portion unless I have the high (or its heads up and Im certain to win the lo)

[emmapeel]

4th was a poor card so I might check here. The 6 likely has a pair or a draw to an 8 low. The K prolly has a pair. I think Hero is losing both ways here. Betting might get the K to fold though which is something.

5th is better but I might just check here too.

I don't see much point in the check-raise on 6th. Villain either has a pair for a better high or a better low. I'm checking this one too.

I don't see any value in betting the river either. Hero must be losing in at least one direction here. I'm check-calling this.

EP

[Baz501]

Agree with what you say now Emma

Dont really know what I was doing with the hand. Thank god it happened a couple of months ago

[Wenona]

I wouldn't call myself an expert but I'm playing a bit of Stud 8 (limit) at the moment and I'd check/fold this on 4th and 5th.

The way the cards fell on 4th, you've most likely been left in the classic situation of having the second best high and the second best low - that's a terrible spot to be in.

I think you're position is made even worse by the fact that there's another ace out - reducing your chances of catching aces for high, and four of your required cards for low (2X5's and 2x6's) are gone as well.

One of the keys in Stud8 is being able to get away cheap on 4th and 5th.

Let's assume the kings paired and also has a 9s, and the other player has the 2h 4h in the hole. Note I've picked hidden cards that don't take away any of you low outs.

Your equity in this situation is :

Villain: .364
Seat 5: .390
Hero: .246

That's pretty yucky!

Even after catching good on 5th, you're not in great shape. If Villian has hit his low and seat 5 stays around with a pair of Kings you're only 20%.

After seat 5 folds, you're still a 60-40 dog against the villain if he's hit the low and you're still a 60-40 dog if he hasn't got the low but has 4 low and a baby pair.

The way the cards fell on 4th, your position is just too vulnerable. You're hoping the others aren't as strong as they may be plus you're hoping to draw. Not worth it. Draw for free or fold.

[Baz501]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Again as I say I would plauy this differently now anyways. Was one of the first times I'd played Stud 8 and was hoping the opponent had a worse low...I was trying to make him think I was behind.

Important poker concepts Ive realised since then anyway:-

1) Dont bluff donks
2) Dont chase half the pot especially when 3 players or more involved (unless you have the nuts or close to)

So embarassed about this hand lol. Will never make same mistake again.