Texas Holdem Strategy

chrisjp

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
(Ante: t50)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t12650
UTG+1: t4563
MP1: t13341
MP2: t17846
MP3: t7972
CO: t16597
Button: t19110
SB: t17563
Hero: t4435

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with Queen of Hearts

2 folds, MP1 raises to t1200, 5 folds, Hero calls t800 (pot was t2250).

Flop: 4 of Clubs

(t3050, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t3200, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: t3200 returned to MP1.

Results:
Final pot: t3050

I think with your stack this is a stopngo or fold preflop.

Chris

nsidestrate · ITH MVP Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 20848

Getting 3:1 pre-flop, I can't see folding such a strong hand there. I'm not sure his remaining 3,200 will get enough folds to justify the flop push, but I guess it is close. Interesting observation.

chrisjp · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:

With 11BB I think its all in or fold here. And nside I think you are right that this is just too strong a hand to fold. So you need to get it all in. The way you do it to maximize your fold equity is to stopngo I think.

I don't look at it as 3-1 though. You need to get it all in here. So it's 4000 to win 4600 or 1800 if villain folds the flop. That's how I look at it. That's why I think folding is an option preflop. But maybe there is some merit to calling and folding if you get a poor flop. 1/3 shot at flopping a pair plus the shot of flopping a straight or flush draw. Maybe Matthew's line has merit.

Chris

nsidestrate · ITH MVP Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 20848

I used to stop-n-go every time. I don't especially like to shove pre, because the stacks are such that you are going to get called essentially every time. If the raise came from late position or I thought the raiser was too frisky, I would shove, but here I don't especially love a pre-flop shove.

I think that the stop-n-go is like the 7 BB push. Once upon a time, it worked really well because you had a lot of fold equity against most players. These days, I don't think it works as well because I think you get called much more light. I don't think even hands as weak as AJ fold here very often. If I had a pocket pair, I'd try to get it in. With KQ, I'm willing to fold, although I see your point too.

I want to understand your position mathematically. Do you think KQ is ahead when called? How often do you think he folds here?

chrisjp · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject:

You make good points nside. I haven't played that much in this "recent" era where everyone is making lighter calls because so many are putting moves on. If you are going to get called when you shove the flop, basically every time, then Matthew's line is quite reasonble. You call, hope to hit the flop, and then you get paid off when you do. You can check/fold the flop if you miss, and still have enough bullets, barely, to fight another day.

I'm checking the flop always, and then moving in, with a hand, if he bets. If he checks behind on the flop and I have made something by the turn then I push the turn or check again to trap depending on the board and my strength.

Thanks.

Chris

ciaran · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:

Coming from a STT mindset, if I'm villain I call a flop shove on this board with almost anything I raised with pre-flop unless I was on a complete steal in the first place, precisely because I expect to get shoved by missed hands and check-raised by made hands more often than anything else.

From hero's point of view, that makes villain's bet look that much stronger too, though, depending on what we know about villain.

So, we're left trying to determine whether villain will think like this or not.

Also, I like a shove pre-flop versus some players, but I think we're generally behind an MP raiser's raise/call range equity-wise. I'm also not sure how likely we are to get paid off post-flop when we hit. Ultimately, I expect this is a pretty marginal spot despite the relative strength of hero's hand.

I've seen Matthew play hands like this before, and heard him make the comment about trying to hit the flop out of the blinds in similar spots. I think I need to make a note for next time we're playing together.

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