Texas Holdem Strategy

jeffnc

Post any questions here for discussion with other ITHers, or for one of the authors, Matt Flynn. Link to hand examples or post them here if directly relevant to a PNL concept.

Matt Flynn · Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

hi all,

ask away!

matt

maddogmike · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 431

Hi Matt,

Your book is a big eye opener for me. Thanks for answering questions

I'm wondering how to approach a flopped set when the flop is single suited. I've seen these about 6 times in the past few weeks. Should I be aggressive on the flop to protect against draws, or should I be more careful against possible flopped flushes? In the following example, I had trouble deciding how committed I was...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($13.55)
UTG+1 ($17.25)
MP1 ($49.20)
MP2 ($23.65)
CO ($20.15)
Button ($26.55)
Hero ($25.65)
BB ($57.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with

,

.
5 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.75)

,

(3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75, Button raises to $2.5, Hero ??

Button is loose and tends to spew chips. I like him. BB is tight, I'd rather not have him in the hand. Both have aggresion around 1.5

Silvershade · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 365

I will join in here but book only arrived yesterday so havent been able to read it all yet.

SittingDuck · 1K Club Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Posts: 1582

maddogmike,

I'm not Matt, but I'll put my 2 cents in...What read did you have on your opponent? Then as per the book think about the REM.

jeffnc · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:19 am Post subject:

Matt, I was wondering how you derived the basic math for the SPR strategy. Was it empirical estimates, or was it something fancier?

I understand the basic concepts - I've posted some very contrived examples in the past. This example is only semi-contrived:

You raise with AA or KK or AK in EP. You're called by one opponent in EP, and everyone else folds. You happen to know this opponent will only cold call with small/medium pocket pairs in EP, everything else he folds or reraises. He also knows you're tight and straightforward, especially UTG, but you will sometimes go all the way with an overpair or TPTK, but sometimes lay it down.

On the flop, if an A comes he will put you on AK. Otherwise he'll put you on AA/KK. You will always bet TPTK or an overpair. Then he will
- always raise all-in if he flops a set
- usually fold if he misses
- occasionally bluff raise all-in

So, how to come up with a target SPR for this player? If you are willing to call his all-in bets every time (ignoring the fact that he might stop bluffing if you did so), then your target SPR is probably going to be something around 4 or 5. The exact number would depend on bluffing probabilities, but the point is that if we plugged in some specific numbers we could come up with a specific SPR and therefore a specific raise amount (such as to $11 with $100 effective starting stacks) that would make this profitable.

But that's just one relatively easy math example. How did you come up with numbers for a more general case?

Matt Flynn · Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

how likely is it that someone flopped a flush given that you're getting action? first part is how tight is opponent preflop? will he play suited aces? suited one-gappers? that gives you an idea of how many hands beat you. then if you get a lot of action you have a better idea of whether you're beat. also, flushes are less common with an ace-high flop b/c so many people overvalue suited aces and routinely play them.

usually i'll go slow on flop and bet a non-flush turn, allowing me to figure out whether someone's flushed before putting a ton of chips in (this assumes decent amount of money behind). if you do that and pair the board, often weaker opponents won't give you credit for the boat and will pay you off big with a good flush. also, they are less likely to get spunky with the ace in suit on the turn if they don't have the flush since they expect to get jammed by a flush.

if your opponents will jam with a lot of non-flush hands, you just suck it up and get money in. you're going to lose a lot of big pots that way though.

in general I think of it as AK with top pair. once you feel out whether there's a bigger hand you can value bet whatever your opponents will call.

jeffnc · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject:

Here's another hand example
http://www.internettexasholdem.com/phpbb2/ak-in-sb-raised-pot-trying-to-use-pnl-concepts-vt53897.html

Holgininho · Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 468 Location: Essen

I have read about three quarters of the book, and I'm struggling with the target SPR. Specifically:

- Why isn't my target SPR with AA (and maybe kings) 0 (meaning all the money goes in preflop), but lies between 4 and 10?

- The target SPR for top pair hands like AQ is lower than that for overpair hands (though I think the target SPR for AA should be the lowest possible). But don't you run into problems, if you reach an SPR of 2 against a very tight opponent, as is recommended? The book hasn't addressed reraising, calling a reraise or simply calling a raise yet, but I figure it isn't that important how exactly you reach a low single digit SPR against a tight opponent. In any case quite a lot of money has to go in preflop. But what will be a tight opponent's preflop range for calling a big raise or a reraise? How does a hand like KQ do against this range? Very poorly, I assume. So, basically, I wouldn't want to commit against a really tight opponent with KQ. Ever. Why doesn't the book take preflop ranges into account when recommending target SPRs? Or will this come up later? I think the SPR should be as low as possible with the preflop nuts. But the weaker your preflop hand the more likely you are to run into problems, if you reach a low SPR.

More questions will follow. Wink

Silvershade · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 365

Holgininho · Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 468 Location: Essen

jeffnc · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject:

checkmate · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

Thanks Jeff for starting this thread.

I have just finished my 2nd read of this book and so far its been a big help. One change I made after reading it is that now I sit down with 50BB's instead of 100. As a result, my hands have been easier to play. Im far from being an expert at NL so I'm happy to make my hands as easy to play as possible. Im sure this will be a book I reread often.

Does anyone else sit with 50BB's after reading this book? I know its often popular to flame someone for only sitting with half a stack but my bankroll sure isn't complaining.

Silvershade · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 365

I'm about 2/3rds of the way through and havent altered how much I sit with yet but am seriously considering sitting with around 70bb instead of the 100 I currently sit with. Maybe 50 or 60 would be even better.

My initial take is that a smaller stack size is going to be better for sure.

I'm wondering though, what do you do if you double up? Do you start going for high sprs with pair type hands or rathole?

Neku · Joined: 11 Jul 2007 Posts: 18

Re the sitting at the table with only 50 BB: done that too. It does give an advantage.

Re the AA and KK and getting all the money in preflop. I believe they advise to go all in with AA if possible, but not (always) with KK. I'm only in my first reading, but that's what I took away.

I'll be reading PNL several times to get a good grasp, but so far the SPR idea is pretty useful. In a way, it makes a NL hand resemble a Limit hand a bit more, I think. In Limit, you usually have an instinctive feel of how far a hand can or will go. Without the SPR concept, a NL can feel like flying blind (how much of a raise can I call with Axs? how much can I raise with SC's in MP?). SPR will make it easier to evaluate a hand before you put money in, so I expect it will make a major difference in my play, from preflop hand selection to river showdown.

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