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Irishsaint
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 24
Location: New Hampshire
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 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Any tips of getting reads? |
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| Obviously reading players is a much simpler task live than online. I'm finding it hard to stay focused enough while playing online to get accurate reads on players. I really need some tips on working on this aspect of the game. I'm def. starting to count too much on the math of the game and not enough on the players. I don't like to multi-table for just this reason. Any tips would be great, thanks! |
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Stew21
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 893
Location: Orlando, Fl
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Pokertracker could be a help to you here.
If not, you'll have to do it by hand.
Keep looking for the same players when you log on and do your best to figure out what they will bet with, what they will raise with etc.
GL
One more thing, be patient.  |
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Damo_1
PauliF Fan Club
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 1009
Location: Playing sets fast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Have look over at this post for some discussion on playing opponents without reads. As Stew said, Poker Tracker or similar software is the obvious main help in the long run, especially if you start to multi table.
If you don't want to use tracking software there's plenty of ways of remembering up your opponents tendencies. Some sites allow you to label opponents with a colour (FT and the Ongame network spring to mind), you can mark weak players green and tough ones red for example. Also, use the text box to note whether a player draws with bad odds, bluffs often, plays weak hands out of position, etc. |
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CameronMilelr
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Isn;t poker tracker software illegal? |
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Soultwister
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Reads are not all about making detailed notes about how opponents play, but are also a lot about translating all the information available. There are some exploitable tendencies in villain's plays which may be note-worthy, like a fish always minraising sets on turns and just calling with draws etc, but overall, there's much more information to get reads about your opponent's hands quite easily. For example, this is a hand from a few days ago I was very unhappy about afterwards:
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($182.00)
UTG+1 ($230.00)
CO ($45.40)
BTN ($207.00)
SB ($201.00)
Hero ($335.25)
Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BB  
2 folds, CO calls $2, BTN raises to $9, 1 fold, Hero calls $7, CO calls $7
A shortstack fish limps, and a solid tag villain makes an iso-raise. He will do that with a lot of hands, even while the fish was shortstacked. KQo plays pretty good vs his isolation raise, so I call here.
Flop:    ($28, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks
Now right here we got tons of information: BTN does not have a J here, nor AK, nor AA, because he would have bet those all the time. He would never let me or the shortstack fish get a free card where there are so many draws possible. He is still the type who cbets too often in multiway boards on bad flop textures, yet he checks behind here. This means his hand is face-up as a hand that cannot stand a checkraise and is not strong enough to value bet, nor weak enough to cbet trying to take it down. So his range here consists of hands like TT/99 or queens, flush draws, OESD etc. KK is also a possibility, but extremely unlikely so not really worth taking into consideration.
Turn:  ($28, 3 players)
Hero bets $11, 1 fold, BTN calls $11
Here I am 100% certain I have BTN beat, but the shortstack fish plays straightforward. Should I bet here and he calls he has a draw or a K. If he jams here he holds a J. So I want to bet as little as possible, so BTN may think I'm bluffing with a draw myself here, and to learn what CO has. I made this small bet because the fish won't notice the difference between this and a larger one and how he will proceed will not change based on my bet size, but BTN may decide to do something stupid should I bet small here.
At this moment there is no way BTN can make me fold my hand, not even by raising huge or shoving, since I am ahead here all the time. Villain's call here makes it even more likely the range I estimated him to have here is correct.
River:  ($50, 2 players)
Hero bets $32, 1 fold
This river changes nothing, I am always ahead here, but this is where I mess up. Villain is never going to call a bet on this river with QQ/TT/99, nor with missed draws. So at this moment my only option to make money is by checkcalling, since he may be bluffing some of his own misdraws.
Final Pot: $50
Hero wins $79.50 ( won +$27.50 )
CO lost -$9.00
BTN lost -$20.00
In short, the stack sizes with the shortstack involved, scary board, and a solid opponent will force villain to play this hand honestly on the flop, which will turn over his cards, or at least his range. This is what hand reading is, not looking for someone's nose to twitch like in the movies...
On the other hand, vs some people, timing tells are incredibly reliable. For instance, there are many, many people who only play a few tables and have very reliable timing tells out of position. For instance, some fish limp-calls and the flop comes something like 238 with two hearts. Fish insta-checks to me. Quite often this means villain knows exactly what to do here, which is check-calling a top pair kinda hand, or perhaps two overcards with flushdraw. The reason for nearly instantly checking is done unconcious to appear weak. Now assume the same flop vs same player, yet villain thinks for a bit and checks. This is often a hand they don't want to call a bet with, like two overcards without a flushdraw. They think for a bit to appear stronger.
Timing tells are relatively important vs some opponent, but translating the actions taken preflop and postflop into hand ranges will be a much more reliable way to 'read hands'. |
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ImBetterDude
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 598
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Soultwiser, I learn a lot by reading your posts...perhaps more than anyone else here. I just want to take a second to thank you for your posts which are jam packed with valuable NLH advice.
As someone who has become more of a passive member here at ITH, know that your detailed responses are much appreciated. |
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Scully
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 551
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ImBetterDude wrote: | Soultwiser, I learn a lot by reading your posts...perhaps more than anyone else here. I just want to take a second to thank you for your posts which are jam packed with valuable NLH advice.
As someone who has become more of a passive member here at ITH, know that your detailed responses are much appreciated. |
What he said |
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