This interview with Matthew was conducted in late 2005 by 72os.
72os - Around 5 years ago you gave up a great paying job to become a full time online poker player. Back then had you envisioned being where you are right now with a successful book, popular website, and 2 back to back money finishes in the WSOP main event?
Matthew Hilger - My wife and I decided to quit my job and move to New Zealand to enjoy one last hurrah before having kids and raising a family. Online poker was just a means to pay the bills while we were having fun over in New Zealand. The original plan was to just go on a two-year sabbatical and then return to the States where I would find another job.
But our plans changed a little ?. I wrote Internet Texas Hold’em while living in New Zealand as a way to break up the monotony of the day playing online all the time. I really only expected that the book might generate a nice side income. We returned to the States in May of 2003. I actually sent out resumes and had one job interview in June and July. During this time, I started to realize just how big poker was in the States. I wasn’t too excited about wearing a suit again and asked my wife, “Why don’t we give the book six months and see what happens?” The book was released in August and I have never looked back.
My website really was another unexpected surprise. I originally just started up the site as a means to be able to sell a few books directly rather than go through wholesalers. It cost me $300 to start the site and now we have two full-time employees and a part-time programmer.
So to say that I envisioned this success would be a lie! The success was a combination of good timing, good luck, and just being able to capitalize on the opportunities as they came about.
72os - Your book Internet Texas Hold'em: Winning Strategies from an Internet Pro came out in 2003. Since then we have seen the popularity of poker explode. Do you think online poker has changed since your wrote the book? If so how?
MH - The games are much looser nowadays. Television has brought so many new players into the game. I sometimes wonder how much I could have made back then if the games were as juicy as they are today. There are also a tremendous number of new sites to choose from so finding a good game is never a problem. When I was playing in New Zealand, the top limits were $20-$40 and they were quite tough when compared to similar limit games that you see now.
72os - Your book was focused on Limit Texas Hold’em. With No Limit Hold’em on TV everywhere do you think they are missing out by starting out playing No Limit?
MH - Tournament play is fun and exciting, especially no-limit. But I think it is easier learning the fundamentals of the game playing Limit. Of course, I started out playing no-limit tournaments in Costa Rica so you can still go from one to the other if you know how to adapt.
72os - On a personal note I have to say that I owe a lot of my success in poker to ITH and you. I remember on of my first post on the InternetTexasHoldem.com forum was on a bad run of cards I was on, and the felling of having a lot of doubt in my game. I woke up that morning to see that you had taken time to reply back to me and give me some advice that got me in the right frame of mind to be playing winning poker. What have all the success stories meant to you? Sample of the advice I was given: “…This is why there are so many fluctuations in this game. People don't realize that it is just subtle moves and plays made over the long-term that impact your results. For example, in a 2 or 3 hour session, you may have 4 or 5 pots which greatly impact your short-term results. You hit a flush in a big pot or your opponent hits a runner-runner to take away a nice pot from you. On your good days or bad days a small number of pots will make a difference...”
MH - I never get tired of receiving positive feedback! I really just consider myself a student of the game and thought I could write a book which would prevent players from making some of the same mistakes I did when starting out. The Forum at my website is just an extension of that. I think we have a great community now where everyone is there to help each other out. It’s great that the book and website has had such a good impact on so many players. I can’t wait to see some of these players hit the big time over the next few years and hear them say that ITH was the first book they read!
72os - On the other hand have you had anyone blame you and your book for not turning them into and over night success in poker?
MH - Everyone has opinions and not everyone has liked the book but no one has blamed me for their losses.
72os - You’ve had a lot of success at the WSOP the last 2 years. Do you plan on playing more on the tournament circuit or are you going to only focus on a few events a year?
MH - I want to play more tournaments but it has been difficult. #1, I hate being away from my family on the road. #2, the website and a new book I have been working on take up a lot of my time. I definitely plan on playing more tournaments next year including even more tournaments at the WSOP.
72os - At this years WSOP main event you flipped over 77 vs. Doyle Brunson’s KJ. What was going through your mind during and after the hand?
MH - The blinds were $100-$200 and the under-the-gun player limped in. I acted next and raised to $1000. I had a huge stack at the time. Doyle acted a few positions later and moved all-in to $3200.
The first thing that came to my mind was that Doyle had been playing very conservative all day. He had rarely raised preflop, let alone a reraise. So my first thoughts were that he had a big premium pair. But then I started looking at the pot odds. I had to pay $2200 to win something like $4700 so I was getting a little better than 2 to 1 pot odds. I’m even money against two overcards and 4 to 1 against an overpair. It was close. While I was thinking, Doyle did something very uncharacteristic for him, he told me, “You don’t want to knock me out with all of the cameras and people looking on?” I thought this comment was strange. Was he trying to get me to call or fold? My instincts just told me that Doyle wouldn’t say something like that to me with a big premium pair since I was already considering pretty hard whether to call. Of course I also thought there was a chance Doyle was just using some psychology to get me to call but I went with my instinct and got great pot odds for our race.
72os - What is the biggest mistake that you see amateur players making?
MH - At the WSOP main event on Day 1, it is clearly going broke with AK. With big stacks, AK either wins you a small pot or you get out. Amateurs just don’t adjust for the big stack they get in comparison to the blinds in a major tournament. They are used to 1500 in chips where it is often correct to push AK if you hit a flop.
72os - You started playing live poker then moved into online poker. What are the biggest adjustments you have to make in your game when playing each?
MH - I can’t play live cash games. They are just way too slow for me. It is a big difference when playing two tables at 70 hands an hour compared to 40 hands an hour in a live cash game. I think the adjustment from online to live cash games is very difficult unless you are a very patient person.
On the other hand, the people aspect in live tournaments adds such a great element to the game. Playing live tournaments wears me out as there are so many things to concentrate on. So my preference is live tournaments and online cash games. The biggest adjustment between the two is just being able to adapt to the change of pace.
72os - How much online poker do you get to play now?
MH - About 5 hours a week. I mostly play $50-$100 short-handed. During April to June I play more online tournaments to try and gear up for the WSOP. I hope to complete my book by the end of the year and plan on putting in some real hours for a couple of months during the winter playing online tournaments.
72os - What type of computer set up do you have to play online? And is there something that is a must have for online players?
MH - When I play online, I play for fun and to work on my game. For that reason, I rarely play multiple tables anymore. I don’t play unless I can concentrate and I just prefer not to play multiple tables. So my setup is pretty basic.
I do have an elliptical machine setup so that I can play with a wireless mouse while getting a good workout. You can’t beat getting some exercise while making money at the same time.
72os - You have a new book in the works can you tell us a little about it?
MH - The tentative title for the new book is Texas Hold’em Odds and Probabilities: Limit, No-Limit, and Tournament Strategies. The title speaks for itself but basically the book shows how to use math to make good poker decisions in a variety of situations. The book also includes what I believe to be the most comprehensive set of Hold’em stats ever printed. I really think it will be a great resource for both beginning and advanced players. I expect it to be released in February or March.
72os - Are there any other projects you are working on that you can share with us?
MH - I have a 3rd book in the works which I am coauthoring and publishing which ought to come out next summer. Sorry, but I can’t yet divulge the topic.
I am also quite excited about The Poker Tutor which was recently rolled out on my website. The Poker Tutor features The Hendon Mob and I where you can watch us play real hands in an online setting. The beauty of the Poker Tutor is that get to read our analysis and comments in the chat box. We recently just released the first lesson from the Hendon Mob which is a sit-n-go as well as all of the key hands from my 2005 WSOP main event.
We also rolled out Neteller on our site so players can now buy books and Poker Tutor lessons using their Neteller account.
72os - After years of playing poker is the game still fun? And what do you do to avoid burn out?
MH - Great question! My first year playing full-time was a blast. My 2nd year was mixed. I could definitely see that playing poker 35 hours a week on the computer was not something I would want to do for many years. I also couldn’t do the poker circuit full-time as I just don’t like to be traveling so much.
Right now I have the perfect combination. I no longer have to rely on playing poker for an income as the book and website pays my bills. Poker is once again a “hobby”. I get to play when I want to yet poker is still a part of my everyday life as poker is my business.
To avoid burnout, I think it definitely is important to vary your game. Playing limit and no-limit, playing live and online, and playing Hold’em and other games like Omaha. Mixing it up keeps you on your toes. It is also important to constantly work on improving your game.
72os - As I have grown to be a better and better player I have found that MTTs have become less profitable relative to the gains I can find in a cash game or fast paced SNG or a Headsup match. Due to this trend I have found myself having less and less desire to play MTTs, which were once my bread and butter. I am curious as to whether you have experienced a similar trend in your playing habits as your experience and skills improved? – Grengrad
MH - I never relied on tournaments as an income. Back in the “old” days, tournaments were relatively new and not nearly as frequent as they are now. I always thought that playing cash games was the way to make a living and playing tournaments was a fun diversion. But I realize that many players nowadays specialize in tournaments. I can’t really answer your question as I haven’t really compared tournament win rates to cash win rates.
But you are doing the right thing by constantly evaluating where the “best” game is. This continues to evolve and change. With all the books out there on Hold’em, I suspect that the quality of overall play is going to improve over the next couple of years. Maybe games like Omaha and Omaha Hi-Lo are good places to look for great games? I also find that short-handed play is still very weak, even at the higher limits.
72os - Word on the internet is you know the Power of 72os, and used it at this year’s WSOP. Could you tell us about this hand?
MH - Lol. In 2004 I was known as the guy who only plays aces because of a comment made by an opponent which was aired on ESPN. This year I am known as the guy who bluffs with 72os! I guess this is a good contradictory image to have!
The short story, I made a little bluff on the turn with a board of KKJJ and my opponent checkraised me. I didn’t think he had anything but wasn’t ready to gamble my tournament life right there as I was short-stacked. I decided to simply call. He checked the river and I went all-in. He commented, “I guess you have me beat” while showing 75. I couldn’t resist and showed my 72os. You can read the longer story in Card Player or better yet, the hand is one of the key hands in the Poker Tutor lesson that we recently released.
72os - Thank you Matthew for taking time out to answer our questions, and best of luck!
If you have any questions or comments on the interview, please visit this thread in the ITH Forums.
